Piggyback rig design

Here's one for you historians. How come, when we moved from front and back to piggy back systems, we ended up with the reserve on the top and the main on the bottom???

Over to you!

Maybe because the risers would be twice as long if the reserve was on the bottom and would present more of an entanglement factor. Also, if did a plf, the reserve is more out of the way with it up top. Probablly the FAA wouldn't buy off on a design like that. 'Course that's just my opinion, don't really know.

"Back in the day" when Tony Thacker was a looper of national promenence, he asked a rig manufacturer to make him a rig with the main on top and the reserve on bottom. This, so that he would be more streamlined in the style tuck. Anyone ever at Raeford can fell free to ask him personally about it. He also posts on here at "TonyT".

Chuck

ted strong bulit one a few years back i saw it when he was over for the lew sanborn aruraccy meet

All the above logic is valid, but I also suspect that the decision to put the reserve on top was an extrapolation from fore and aft gear.
Some accuracy competitors liked to undo the belly band and one hook on their chest-mounted reserves. This allowed them to swing it off to the side for a better view of the disc.
Some other fore and aft rigs had longer risers on the chest which allowed them to toss their belly wart over their heads for an even better view of the disc.
I suspect that this is what gave them the idea for mounting the reserve at shoulder level.
Also remember that the first few piggy back rigs allowed owners to switch the reserve from chest to back at a whim.

As a side note, in 1999, when Ted Strong built his experimental accuracy rig with the reserve on top, he was also experimenting with a four-poster main riser configuration. Ted sewed a total of four RW-1 rings to his harness. The pair of RW-1 rings on the front of his shoulders held the front main risers while the RW-1 rings on the back of his shoulders held his rear main risers. His cutaway handle had four cables.
Ted theorised that the four main riser attachments would be more stable for accuracy competition. One of these days I should ask him what he learned from that experiment.

Main on top:

Boc would work but would result in a long bridle path to the main container. Could there be problems in the instance of a total? Likely none that couldn't be rigged around. I think this would result in a long flap to cover the bridle which likely wouldn't be as windblast proof as most people would like these days.

Edited to add....actually, I think that this won't work because the bridle would have to cross the reserve risers.

I don't think pull-out would be feasible at all...for those of us that prefer the pull-out....maybe if the handle was on your shoulder it would work but having the handle at the bottom of the container would be ugly. I can think of only bad things about it.

This would be fine with a ripcord deployed main...but I can't think of many people still jumping a spring loaded p/c on their main. Mike Michigan was the last person I saw doing that...in about 1982 or so.

I had several friends who jumped "Pig Rigs" back in the early 70's. To tell you the truth they scared the bejeebies out of most of us newbies. I still don't really understand some of the gizmos that were on some of them. Some had one shot cape-wells and t-shaped reserve handles and so on. Many of us just referred to them as death rigs. The idea of not having your reserve out front just seemed way to scary to me. Some of them even had a Jesus line (I think it was called) to pull in case the reserve didn't open properly. When someone would walk by with this rig on I'd think, "Man that guy has guts" or "Man that guy must be good!".....That's about all I know on the subject of pig rigs.......I get chills just thinking about them.......Steve1

Quote

Main on top:

Boc would work but would result in a long bridle path to the main container.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

When Ted Strong built his upside-down accuracy rig, he sewed the main pilotchute pouch to the main riser cover where it came over his right shoulder.

Ted did about 18 jumps on that rig back in 1998, but it has been on shelf ever since as more pressing R&D projects demand his attention.

• Quote

Pig riggs were originally designed with the reserve on top because #1 the reserve risers were under the main risers so the main deployment would not interfear with reserve risers,#2 in case of stuck container flaps on the reseve (which did happen occationally) the jumper could elbow the container open.D-47

Quote

• Quote

I cant say with 100% certanty without asking him directly, but rumor has it that former US Navy Test Parachutist Gordon Foster is THE man that invented the original piggy back system.

wrong. from my research(july 1965 skydiver magazine) it was ludlow clements,and others at security parachute in san leandro ca.

Dan Abbott was the designer of the first Security Piggyback. The first rough drawings consisted of a side by side design, a top reserve design & a bottom reserve design.
This took place onboard a commercial airline when Dan was returning to San Leandro, CA from his visit with the Army Parachute Team training in AZ, Dec 1963.
He also designed the Crossbow Canopy and the complete Piggyback System with the 26' lopo reserve was called Crossbow.
Pioneer's piggyback system came about a year later.
Dan Abbott was honored by PIA for his design of the first piggyback system at the first Symposium in Orlando FL

"Back in the day" Piggybacks and even B-4's were to long for us short folks.

I bought a crossbow container system from a guy (1970) who had modified it for his wife. To reduce some of the length he took a hotknife

He then added some D-rings under the shot & halfs and with some parts off a surplus reserve container made the the crossbow reseve container into a front mounted reserve.

The reserve had a 26' surplus navy conical and with a PC for a main we had to shorten the main container due to the reduced volume from the crossbow (just take a tuck and sew). The rig was yellow with black bungee's

With the shortened rig I was finaly able to tilt my head back and get the main container off my butt.

I haven't gotten any tallerin 30 years but now I can wear a real piggyback like the big boy's!

Due to the weight gain I just can't wear a real small rig like the real men .

R.I.P.

Ricksriggery:
When Dan Abbott made the initial sketchs , first was main and reserve side by side, There was a cross over of the main right riser over the reserve pack. It looked like a disaster waitng to happen.
Next, Danput the reserve on the bottom of the main pack. The reserve risers were routed along the sides of the main container, covered with flats. The objection he said was the long reserve risers.(weight)
The final configuration was the reserve on the top with short reserve risers. It aslso facilitated Automatic Reserve lanyard. This was the configuration chosen. The original main pack was closed with a zipper. The Test Jumpers were Loy Brydon, Jerry Bourquin and Lyle Cameron.
Blue skies,
26ftconical.

Quote

[(...)The final configuration was the reserve on the top with short reserve risers. It aslso facilitated Automatic Reserve lanyard. This was the configuration chosen. The original main pack was closed with a zipper. The Test Jumpers were Loy Brydon, Jerry Bourquin and Lyle Cameron.
Blue skies,
26ftconical.

As soon as I can be home on a day when there's enough daylight to haul it outside, I'll take some pics of one of these original rigs, making sure to note all of these features. This appears to be one of the original Crossbow rigs that Abbott made for the 1964 U.S. Team:
One shots
Blast handle reserve
Big-mutha trapezoidal main ripcord handle
Automatic reserve lanyard & pull-away reserve ripcord housing
Jeeziz String (aftermarket addition)
Gravel stop on ripcord housing (one still on it)
Zipper for closing main pack
Other stuff that I might have forgotten

26ftconical - Do you happen to know if a lead stop on the ripcord (to keep it from being lost) was part of the original design, or if some rigs had that later, to prevent the loss of the unique ripcord & handle?

Quote

I had several friends who jumped "Pig Rigs" back in the early 70's. To tell you the truth they scared the bejeebies out of most of us newbies. I still don't really understand some of the gizmos that were on some of them. Some had one shot cape-wells and t-shaped reserve handles and so on. Many of us just referred to them as death rigs. The idea of not having your reserve out front just seemed way to scary to me. Some of them even had a Jesus line (I think it was called) to pull in case the reserve didn't open properly. When someone would walk by with this rig on I'd think, "Man that guy has guts" or "Man that guy must be good!".....That's about all I know on the subject of pig rigs.......I get chills just thinking about them.......Steve1

I had both One-Shot's and a Blast Handle (T-Handle) on my B4 container. When I built my first Wonderhog, I used One-Shot's on that also, though the reserve handle was orange PVC. I'd jump that Wonderhog without hesitation right now if I still had it (Strato-Star main, 26' Navy Con reserve).

My only reserve ride was on the Wonderhog, One-Shot's and plastic reserve ripcord (before we changed all the rigs to metal reserve ripcords).

Wartlord:
Part 1
Prior to the Crossbow, all harnesses and containers were exmilitary and you had your choice between OD and sage green (Navy). The canopies were 28' C.9s and 24ft surplus or 26 ft Navy Conicals. Pioneer had a 28ft. low porosity canopy in colors and a sage green NB-8 harness and container. Pioneer was licensed by EFA, a French company south of Paris, France who had designed a towable parachute behind a boat or car. Pioneer called Paracommander and began trying it out for for jumping. The problem was it did not have brakes and if you laned it downwind, it was crunch time!

Quote

Wartlord:
Part 1
reply]

Oh, GOOD!! I'm presuming that this is the first part of a 50-part series of postings ... please?

• Quote

Wartlord:
The lead cable stop was standard on the Crossbow from 2cd experimental rig (just called the "Piggyback). The aluminum cast ripcord grip was an effort to make grip fit the closed hand instead of the 1/4" steel tube which did not fit the hand.
Blue skies,
26ftconical

Part 2.
Dan Abbott had designed a triangle canopy (area equivalent to a 28 ft canopy,) specifically for sport parachute jumping in early 1963. It was being developed with a series of test jumps, evaluations and modifications to maximize performance. Along with the triangle canopy also reserve canopy had been designed a 26ft block constructed 30 degree conical. (More on the background later.) Also a sleeve for the main, a new pilot chute 50'' in diameter and a 30 lb coil spring, 24" long to eliminate the pilot chute being caught in the burble on the back of the jumper. End of part 2.

Part 3
They were have problems with getting the Abbott Triangle, (Delta III) to turn as fast as the Pioneer 28 ft low porosity C-9 wit a 9 panel ellipical TU. The Delta was made of 1.1 oz/yd2 ripstop fabric. They were at an Impass, the performance was good in all aspects but the turn rate.
Dan Abbott had a meeting with John Maggi, President
of Security, Dan was Vice President and Director of Engineering. It was decided The Delta program was be put on the back burner. End of Part 3.

Part 4.
At meeting it was decided that Security had to get an Sport Rig on the Market. Dan Abbott suggested they come up with a 28 ft low porosity main canopy in red,white, blue yellow and black in 1.1 oz ripstop instead of the 1.6 oz that Pioneer was using.
Dan Abbott then Putnam Mills and ordered 2000 yds of each color. When the fabric came in the cut and sewed up two 28 ft Canopies, both red,whit and blue. Some testin had been done when on 3 December 1963, Security was approached by Deke Sonnichson, President of PCA (Parachute Club Of America, predessor of USPA. and another member of the PCA Board.
End of Part 4.

Part 5.
In the early evening of 3 December 1963, Deke Sonnichsen, President of PCA and another Board member, Bill something came to Security and met with John Maggi, Lou Maggi andDan Abbott. Deke Asked if Security would be interested in suporting and equipping the U.S.Parachute Team in 1964?
An agreement was made by Security to PCA to equipeach member of the US team with complete Security rigs in cluding a carrying bag.
Two Tracvker rigs were turned over to Deke Sonnichsen for evaluation by the team members at Army Proving Ground at Yuma, Arizona. end of Part 5.

Part 6.
The U.S.Team members at Yuma jumped the Tracker canopies and thought the ellipical 9 panel TU was better than the other with the (9 panel straight cut TU.)
The two rigs were returned to Security and another meeting was held, again in the evening. The 2 US Team members said these are OK but they are no better than what they had last year. They needed something better than the Pioneer and Security canopies if they are going to beat the Russians. End of Part 6