what does 4way cameraguy pay for?

I was wondering, who pays for cameraguy's travel tickets? accommodation? Competition fees? How does it look in your team?

We are training at our local dropzone, so travel is not really coming into it. Paying for jump tickets and competition fees... not sure if there is anything else. Not doing back to backs, cameraman is happy to pack for himself between jumps when we are de-briefing/briefing jumps.

For my team last year we had a camera guy who was relatively new to filming 4-way and was willing to take slot + expenses as he learned the craft (this included his pack jobs, travel costs for our out-of-town camps, and competition registration fees). We had a couple of days training at Perris where our regular camera guy couldn't make the trip so we hired a local at slot + $15. I've also hired folks at slot + packjob.

There are camera guys....and then there are CAMERA GUYS. Any idiot seems to be able to strap a GoPro to his head and then demand to get paid for it on his very next jump. Finding a really good one is great, and harder than it appears. We've had camera guys that I'd hesitate to let follow us out a door at all, and then others that we'd be happy to pay slot, expenses, and then we'd buy dinner and drinks for him too.

I had one guy where he offered to video for us. We noted he was new, and he had to show us he could do the job (we are very tight and still in the sky). He took his slot on the first dive to prove it. Got the video - FF lens, barely in frame much of the time, but not at all some of it, not really judgable. He comes up and says, "OK, I think jump + $15 is fair?" we agreed, and encouraged him to go find someone that would pay that for him - we wouldn't.


You need to figure that out with your camera guy. How experienced is he, what does he want to get out of it? What kind of teammate do the 4 of you expect to get? What parts of the 'team' work load will he take on?

Some will pay their own way to be on the team.

Others will pay their own way to practice and learn the craft. then get slot and pack when they get better (judgeable). Then get a little extra when they get real good (tight and clean enough, for team video, training usefulness, consistent and doesn't miss exits) (I'm a fan of this model).

Others get full expenses.

Others get 'break even' kind of deals.



One thing, if the cameraman pays his own way, then he's an equal member of the team - period. Input in briefs and debriefs, planning, medals, etc etc etc. Also, if there is work on the video, he wants to try to learn different exit types, or get good footage from odd angles, etc, the team also supports this just like the 4way training too. (example, he's been doing peel exits and wants to practice leading exits....that's just as important to the team as if the 4way wants to practice Block 8)

If he's paid, then he's an employee - so how that plays out is up to the 4way (hopefully they choose to treat a good cameraman as an equal team member, but bottom line ends up being who's shelling out the $$ IMHO though).

well...I am that cymeraguy :)

I did around 40 jumps with team last year, but since they want to travel quite often this season I would like to determinate my expectations.

welder

well...I am that cymeraguy :)

I did around 40 jumps with team last year, but since they want to travel quite often this season I would like to determinate my expectations.

you are smart - get the agreement up front so there's not confusion when it gets into the thick of things. Good luck. have fun. We absolutely loved our last couple of video guys. Such great chemistry and great video...

and even if it evolves to a contractor role (vs 'teammate') it's still necessary to lay it out and have you in the planning/schedule meetings - you have a life to live

(And I've also done a lot of camera, so this is really from both sides of the debate)

Our camera guy pays for tea, very occasionally if none of us can stop him.

As people have said, there are camera flyers and camera flyers - ownership of a cutaway chin cup does not automatically mean you get free dinner and tickets to Spain twice a year. It's much harder than you think (and I speak from experience here ).

Vidiots worth their salt are not as common as they look - so if you find one, show them the appreciation they deserve

(On the very rare occasions I've filmed teams, just my ticket has been enough - I'm learning as much as they are.)

Yours is the best answer.

I've seen a full range of compensation. For people who are with the team for a full season as committed vidiots capable of at least judgable video (or bettER), I have seen a range from- just covering jumps- jumps plus packs, jumps plus packs plus jump/daily fee, jumps-packs-fee and travel.

It depends on the area, the team, and the specific situation. It can also depend on how good (or bad) any dropzone support or team rates that the team may get.

Depends on the market also. If you are in a place where you are asking someone to jump with the team instead of making $~50 a jump shooting tandems...you may need to offer more to get someone decent. IF there are more tandem video guys than there is work...you might not have to offer as much to get someone to do the job.

I can't say there is a standard. Most seem to at least get jumps+packs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QRHa32O2oM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QRHa32O2oM

ROFLMAO!!! That about sums it up...

Good video guys are extremely hard to come by, especially these days. If you can get one, do what you need to keep him.

StreetScooby

Good video guys are extremely hard to come by, especially these days. If you can get one, do what you need to keep him.

So true! I judged a local 4-way scrambles recently and we had five video guys rotating through. One who's been the full-time cameraman for a pro team, three with various levels of experience filming for non-pro teams, and one who was relatively new. The new guy got points from me by 1) asking for feedback every time on the judgeability of his video (and making small adjustments so his video got better as the day went on) and 2) taking safety very seriously. It's not just "slap a camera on and chase the team" and I appreciated that he acknowledged that. If you think it's just chasing a team around, best case you get crappy video, worst case, someone gets hurt.

ahem. Camera PERSON. It's 2015 now.

Anyhew, as a RW camera person, when I film a team I don't expect to pay for my slot or packing for training or competition. If the pace is casual, I do my own packing to save the team a few bucks, but they usually buy me beer in compensation. I pay my own travel and accomodation costs, but the team pays my entry fees for any competition. I don't ask for any additional money as 'payment', but then again I don't jump for a living, so doing camera for the team doesn't take me away from other income generating activities. All lollies or jokes I distribute in the plane are free of charge or copyright.

sunnyape

ahem. Camera PERSON. It's 2015 now.

I believe the gender-neutral term has been "Vidiot" for many decades



Edit: your terms are pretty typical for a 'fun' (or recreational) team videographer that's decent enough to be trusted in a big competition

rehmwa

***ahem. Camera PERSON. It's 2015 now.

I believe the gender-neutral term has been "Vidiot" for many decades

I can confirm that sunnyape is indeed a vidiot.

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Edit: your terms are pretty typical for a 'fun' (or recreational) team videographer that's decent enough to be trusted in a big competition

For me, the best video is:

- calm, collected and helps folks to laugh when they'll otherwise get stressed
- handles manifest and spotting
- makes sure everyone drinks and snacks through the day
- won't bust you in rd9 of nationals because of the rest of the team's shitty exit.

Those folks are worth whatever it takes to get 'em, but they're definitely part of the team.

Doesn't hurt that the 'ape knows more about 4-way than most of the teams he's filming .

bob.dino

- won't bust you in rd9 of nationals because of the rest of the team's shitty exit.
.

And your vidiot loves the team that doesn't try to blame the "video bust" caused by the kittens in a dryer exit on round nine on them. *edit- the kittens were not possessive. Makn' 3rd grade teacher proud

***ahem. Camera PERSON. It's 2015 now.

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Camera flyer, Video flyer are both gender neutral. I've always thought the use of vidiot to be a skygodish insult to camera flyers.

Life is short ... jump often.

jumpsalot-2

***ahem. Camera PERSON. It's 2015 now.

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Camera flyer, Video flyer are both gender neutral. I've always thought the use of vidiot to be a skygodish insult to camera flyers.

I am a newb vidiot and take no offense at the term. I was given the opportunity to jump with a team and learn the ropes. Only made it a 5 way 3 times through an entire season. Had no video busts during Nats. I attribute that to my awesome team positioning themselves clearly in front of my camera no matter where I happened to be.

If the term "vidiot" causes one's panties to bunch, I say go commando and, "HTFU".

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

monkycndo

******ahem. Camera PERSON. It's 2015 now.

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Camera flyer, Video flyer are both gender neutral. I've always thought the use of vidiot to be a skygodish insult to camera flyers.

I am a newb vidiot and take no offense at the term. I was given the opportunity to jump with a team and learn the ropes. Only made it a 5 way 3 times through an entire season. Had no video busts during Nats. I attribute that to my awesome team positioning themselves clearly in front of my camera no matter where I happened to be.

If the term "vidiot" causes one's panties to bunch, I say go commando and, "HTFU".
If a team calls me a "vidiot", then I refer to them as "butt sniffers". Camera Flyer seems to be the most neutral of all terms

Jason, I was poking fun at myself and others in my category.

Butt sniffers.

The cream of the crop like yourself that have years of experience and stood on the podium are true camera flyers. And I appreciate all the tips and suggestions you have given me.

jtiflyer

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If the term "vidiot" causes one's panties to bunch, I say go commando and, "HTFU".

If a team calls me a "vidiot", then I refer to them as "butt sniffers". Camera Flyer seems to be the most neutral of all terms

funny - love it. We actually have a great shot of a 4-way attempt at a direct Cat launch line from the outside of the plane that that illustrates the term "butt sniffers" - or even "butt sniffer train" very well. I'll try to find it. I do believe our 'camera professional' had that one posted all over the place. It was a point of team pride for him and all of us.

(But, sincerely and with warmth and caring - If any wording causes said panty waddish feelings on any team member, we gladly change our term of endearment to accommodate said discomfort.
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I don't think it's intentional if the new terms become even more unusual and mocking and then used more publicly. It's just a coincidence I'm sure......)



(I think I've seen some of your work.....nice stuff....we'd be proud to have some of that footage for sure....)