Control of the pitch angle while diving towards a formation

When I'm the last to dive out on jumps like a speedstar (big delay from the first out) I often find myself having trouble to close the vertical distance as effectively as horizontal distance. I try to get into a steep dive but I'm usually horizontally close to the formation while way too high. I then arch really strong and can get down but a lot of time is lost during this phase.

I did a lot of research on this forum and also on articles like http://parachutistonline.com/safety_training/foundations-flight/diving-exits but the only effective way I have found to make my dive steeper is to guide it with my head. The issue with that is that I can't keep my eyes at the formation as I'm looking to the horizon as in a head down position. I then keep alternating between keeping the steep angle and looking at the formation every couple seconds until it's time to put the breaks on.

I don't like this technique because if I really want to get the maximum out of my dive I can't look at the formation for longer periods of time, which would make me an unsafe skydiver and possibly overshoot the formation.

So, what are the other ways to adjust the pitch angle (dive steeper) while keeping looking at the formation? I'm basically trying to understand how to achieve the same effect using legs, hips, arms... not the head.

According to this article http://parachutistonline.com/feature/tracking%E2%80%94theory-and-application a delta track, would create a steeper track dive, but that goes against the powerful position explained on the first article (legs bent instead of pointing straight)

On angle flying, we see skydivers completely dearched and bringing their knees down, but they also are looking to the opposite way that they are going, so it doesn't help to keep looking at the formation.

Any advices? Thanks in advance.

daffes

On angle flying, we see skydivers completely dearched and bringing their knees down, but they also are looking to the opposite way that they are going, so it doesn't help to keep looking at the formation.

I don't have the best answer to your question as I don't do much big-way skydiving (others here will!), but: angle flyers using that body position are actually trying for a shallower direction of flight than you want. They are after lift and drive - you just want to fall out of the sky.

This will turn out to be a body position thing - you can maintain the same hard dive with your eyes up. You exit the plane with quite a lot of horizontal separation as well as vertical... if you find yourself steep on it partway through your dive, it's because your initial direction is too shallow - diving *towards* the base instead of to the place you actually want to approach it from. Experiment with aiming at a different place right at the beginning of your dive.

You'll get it :)

First of all, the exit picture - and therefore the angle to the formation - will vary considerably depending on the aircraft. A slow-flying a/c such as a porter will require a steeper dive than an otter. It will also depend if the base is being launched and free-flown. If a base is being chunked off of a skyvan tailgate then you’ll find that there’s more if a horizontal rather than vertical component to the dive.
The article at http://parachutistonline.com/safety_training/foundations-flight/diving-exits is a pretty good description of how to dive down to a formation. You’ll probably find that you have the back of your head/helmet pushed hard back against the area between your shoulder blades, and you may also need to arch your upper body backwards to maintain eye contact with the formation if it’s a really steep one.
Twisting slightly at the shoulders allows you to steer, and altering the amount that you bend forwards at the hips will help control the angle of attack.
When you get it right, you will overshoot the formation for the first few attempts. On a long dive to a large formation it’s easy to hit 200mph and decelerating from that speed requires more time and distance than you expect. If the formation is building and slowing anyway then it’s easy to get caught out.
It goes without saying that you need to aim off to the side if the formation, but in your correct sector/quadrant, so that you minimise traffic issues and you won’t take anyone out if you do overshoot.
Hope this helps.

No advice for you but this photo might give you some ideas.

smooth

No advice for you but this photo might give you some ideas.

Yep, Eric, that's the way I used to do it. Steered with my head and shoulders.

Thanks for everyone's valuable replies, and this pic is really gold!

I've been waiting to reply to the thread until I had to test a few of the hints here. Placing my arms back is giving me that angle I wanted :). I didn't get to be in the extreme last diver speed star position that I mentioned before yet to practice my new skills for real but I did dove a bit faster than I could stop for a couple smaller jumps and had to float back, good thing I was not aiming at the formation :). Now, refining the technique...

daffes

When I'm the last to dive out on jumps like a speedstar (big delay from the first out) I often find myself having trouble to close the vertical distance as effectively as horizontal distance. I try to get into a steep dive but I'm usually horizontally close to the formation while way too high. I then arch really strong and can get down but a lot of time is lost during this phase.

I did a lot of research on this forum and also on articles like http://parachutistonline.com/safety_training/foundations-flight/diving-exits but the only effective way I have found to make my dive steeper is to guide it with my head. The issue with that is that I can't keep my eyes at the formation as I'm looking to the horizon as in a head down position. I then keep alternating between keeping the steep angle and looking at the formation every couple seconds until it's time to put the breaks on.

I don't like this technique because if I really want to get the maximum out of my dive I can't look at the formation for longer periods of time, which would make me an unsafe skydiver and possibly overshoot the formation.

So, what are the other ways to adjust the pitch angle (dive steeper) while keeping looking at the formation? I'm basically trying to understand how to achieve the same effect using legs, hips, arms... not the head.

According to this article http://parachutistonline.com/feature/tracking%E2%80%94theory-and-application a delta track, would create a steeper track dive, but that goes against the powerful position explained on the first article (legs bent instead of pointing straight)

On angle flying, we see skydivers completely dearched and bringing their knees down, but they also are looking to the opposite way that they are going, so it doesn't help to keep looking at the formation.

Any advices? Thanks in advance.

all good big ways have cross communication, jump numbers with practice and strong understandings of each other and their dropzones,,, guiding people, , as a base team,, or gadging,, flight styles and positions are,, parts ,, not whole peaces,, if you can take a few friends on your own,, and set up group approaches,, knowing and seeing small peaces of your flight issue,, puts stop to,, maybe bad,, moments,,.. If you try stretching a bit with half flexing at points imagined in the dive as issues,, try to gadge yourself at that position while someone is watching you,, Also,, a lot of jumpers, as you might know,,
get a lot of lift from some tracking positions, If you can find a wind tunnel, , all the better,,, when I first started out ,,, I tride a number of bigways at 90 degrees, arching and trying to slip a little with my knee,, also doing the 1,2,3,3,2,1, in your head real slow while watching video of the formation,, forwards and backwards, , till you get sick ,, or the tape brakes,,, most people that issue in bigways get better fast with micro movement training, , if your not worried in your mind about 1 part, it gets easier to get the whole picture in your hand,, also if you put yourself in the other jumpers head ,, under your sight while in the air,, as fare as looking and seeing movment, watching knees and feet,, can be better Info,, as you set yourself into a slot ,, before that moment, as the dive is doing well,, let the base be the base , but be a late shadow of yourself, , while looking at the other jumpers feet knees and hands,
!, try these jumps as often as you can, close flying, in that time without touching, , also,, on your own,, try freeflying from the door, it ll help with orientation of the base,, but like all good things, ,, take it slow,, do not try freeflying on the bigway jumps,, just solo out to understand the feel of speed position, , let that skill with others arrive in its own time,, over time,,, and remember, , some years I made over 1200 jumps working,,, if your not jumping alot, in the season,, some skill training might need to be in a different measure,, coach up ,, tunnel up,, what ever it takes , stay slow and sharp,,,