How many jumps do you have?

I am a relatively new comer to this sport. I really love everything about it. But something that I have noticed that bothers me is that some people like to use your jump numbers as a means to look down on you. I mean I understand the safety factor of asking someone how many jumps they have for a particular style of jump (angle flying, head down, exc) just because you really shouldn’t be doing those without a good amount of experience. But just in daily conversation or when asking to jump with other people I hear the “how many jumps do you have?” And I feel like it’s almost a big fuck you. I don’t understand the stigma behind it. Maybe I’m being crazy what do you guys think?

2 hours ago, THERAUCE said:

some people like to use your jump numbers as a means to look down on you

For sure, sometimes.

2 hours ago, THERAUCE said:

safety factor of asking someone how many jumps they have for a particular style of jump

Also sometimes.

2 hours ago, THERAUCE said:

I hear the “how many jumps do you have?” And I feel like it’s almost a big fuck you.

And also this, sometimes.

Some people measure their replication organ by the number of jumps or the inverse of their canopy size, some people want to calibrate a bit to your experience (it's not 100% correlated but someone with 1000 jumps will often have better skills and be more aware of different jump aspects than someone with 100 jumps, etc.), some people might just be asking for chit-chat/to make conversation.

Ultimately, don't give a shit I guess. The main thing I guess is, stop caring yourself about the numbers, just jump, improve your skills and enjoy the sport.

I do ask that sometimes if I am jumping with people I don't know. I don't want to go on a super steep angle, a complex jump or a jump with too many people, if this people can't handle it safely. If I don't know them, the quickest way to estimate it is asking that question. Jump numbers are just a partial answer of course, but a good and quick indicator. For me it is a safety question, as well as a planning question. 

I ask also if I see someone with a questionable canopy choice (read it as in "too small") for someone with low experience. Again, that is for me a safety question (in this case not mine, but I don't want to see anybody hurt, had my share of it already)

Appreciate the feedback guys, ultimately I reckon I’ll just keep jumping and improving and not really give a shit about what some people think. 

(Coming from someone with very few skydives, but grew up at the DZ and have hours of tunnel time)
Experience is important in any sport where your actions can directly impact the people around you. Jump numbers tend to be the default/fast gauge of experience for people who have never jumped with you(and not every newbie, or experienced jumper, for that matter, is the best at knowing their own skill level, so it's important to keep that in mind as well).

As a contrast, When I [recently] graduated AFF, my coach had to tell jumpers who've known me since I was little to back off. I'm not ready to jump with certain people, regardless of my bodyflight experience. Altitude awareness, tracking, canopy piloting etc, are all still new enough to me that I'm not 100% consistent, and while I'm safe for myself and my coach, it's important that I have enough experience with these skills, and my numbers can reflect that.

I think the big thing is to not let your numbers bother you, and don't take it personally if someone doesn't want to jump with you based on your jump numbers, they have their reasons(safety, personal preference, etc.) and they might not be the right person to jump with at this time. (And if someone really is being an ass about your numbers, do you even want to talk to them anyways? There's cooler people out there.)

Personally, I think making friends and being present at your DZ is important too. As you spend more time at your DZ, you'll get absorbed into your local community and find the right people to jump/socialize with(who are familiar with how you skydive). There are plenty of experienced jumpers who love jumping with newer people for you to learn from and jump with.

50 minutes ago, THERAUCE said:

Appreciate the feedback guys, ultimately I reckon I’ll just keep jumping and improving and not really give a shit about what some people think. 

I think ultimately the answer is 1 too few. 

1 hour ago, TampaPete said:

I think ultimately the answer is 1 too few. 

"How many jumps do you have?"

'One less than enough.'

"But that's what you said last week/month/year."

'And it's as true now as it was then.'

1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

"How many jumps do you have?"

'One less than enough.'

"But that's what you said last week/month/year."

'And it's as true now as it was then.'

Thanks Dude

You've gotten some good answers, but here are a couple more:

I'll jump with anyone, regardless of experience. I've said it a zillion times - my only requirement is that you not try to kill me.

But I need to know what that experience is. I need to decide if you can safely join the group I'm with or how to build a group and dive plan that has a reasonable chance of succeeding and that will be safe(ish).

The only real metrics for that experience is jump numbers, and to a certain degree, tunnel time (see post #6 for why tunnel time is not a full replacement). 

As was also noted in post #6, being a part of the community is also part of it.
Show up on a regular basis. Jump with folks. When they get to know you and your skill level, the chances of getting invited on fun stuff goes up. I've seen 40-50 jump new folk invited on bigish (12 or so) hybrids because the guys putting the plan together knew that the new guy could make a stable exit and lay the base for a hybrid. Not a super challenging or exciting slot, but it gave the new guy a chance to be on a fun jump, show he could do what was needed and gain some experience.

Hang out after jumping (you don't have to drink). Make friends so you aren't just 'the new guy'. 

And, the hardest part, be patient. It takes time to build kills & experience. But if you show those around you that you aren't going to do stuff beyond what you should, show them that you have a good handle on what you can & can't do, that you have some good judgement, you will have a better chance of becoming a part of the 'cool kids'. 

Don't be 'that guy'. Don't be Mr Madd Skillz. I know a couple guys who have earned a reputation for being stupid and dangerous. For some strange reason, they have a hard time finding people to jump with. 

There will always be a few that look down on you because you're new. 
But my experience is that they are far, far more the exception than the rule.
 

As a load organizer I'm partially responsible for the safety of the group. I'll do a 2-way with anyone. When someone wants to jump with my group, yes, I need to know their capabilities. Sometimes we'll break into smaller groups to accommodate those with lower skills. When that person says, "but I wanted to do 8-way",  but they can't do consistent 4-way, that shows that they don't understand all the factors involved with these decisions, and don't respect the other jumpers.

When I ask folks what slot they feel comfortable in and they say, "I can do anything" that's a big red flag. They get placed in or close to the base until we learn what they can really do.

I've taken lesser experienced jumpers on bigger ways. They were jumpers I've jumped with, and I knew what they could and couldn't do. They get slotted in a place where they can be successful and the group isn't negatively impacted or safety compromised. They enjoy the jump, do well, learn and are gracious. Sharing a handshake or hug, and a thanks goes a long way. That gets them on the next jump. Being an LO is fun, but it's work and can be a PIA. And if I'm paying for jump it's an extra PIA. Be nice.

Three goals: have fun, help others learn in a controlled fashion, and have everyone go home whole.

I feel it's the right question, wrongly worded. As others have already talked about, it's a tool to gauge the experience of people when jumping together with them, which is vital for a load organiser to ensure a safe and fun jump.

However, if an FS organiser asks that question to me, the answer is 1300-ish. That won't help him, since only about 100 of those were actual FS jumps. So the better question would be to ask what one's experience is, what they have done before, which positions, etc. Any good load organiser will quickly be able to determine what jump is safe and fun after that. And good load organisers will not look down on anyone for having a particular (typically low) amount of experience, only the shitty assholes will do that.

Seek out the cool load organisers, avoid the shitty assholes.

On 8/28/2020 at 8:32 PM, THERAUCE said:

Appreciate the feedback guys, ultimately I reckon I’ll just keep jumping and improving and not really give a shit about what some people think. 

I think you should give a shit about what people think. And why they think it.

If someone with more experience tells you that you are not fit for a given jump, maybe they have a reason for it.

If their reason is that they are assholes with an ego too inflated, well, then you would be right in not giving a shit.

But if their reason is that you are way above your head, and that the plan they are planning to do is too much for you to handle at your experience, then you should be humble, patient and learn step by step.

If your profile is right, you should understand that your experience is quite low, and there a lot of jumps that are not for you right now. Even world class athletes were babies once. Your time will come if you are serious about the sport, and you keep jumping, improving and being safe. Those are the only things that matter at this moment in your skydiving career.