Vengeance Discontinued

Dudek · January 12, 2014

The airlocks are amazing in turbulance,fantastic main canopy wing loading 1,55

alberto1980 · March 15, 2013

I just switched from a Vengeance 150 to a Katana 135, and I regret it.

Vengeance opens way better, slightly less ground hungry which is a good thing. Get it till you find one.

Jonesy920x · September 18, 2012

I just came back after a 17 year hiatus and wanted to get an airlock canopy. I picked up a VN 170 loaded at 1.4. The canopy was a blast. I had read the reviews on the canopy and was scared to death on my first few openings. Yes this canopy can give you a surprise but I would attribute that more to body position and packing. Personally I believe loaded lightly it's a great intermediate wing. I downsized to a VN 150 loaded at 1.6 and what an amazing difference ! Much more responsive and a lot more forward speed (DUH). However if you work through your canopy skills you'll find it glides very well in brakes. I've made it back from some long spots with that technique. But when you let it loose it's a ground hungry bitch. Coming out of half brakes it gives a pretty good surge that could get you in trouble landing out if you haven't practiced it. All in all I love this wing and I am a true "Airlock" groupy ( :

p.w.stockwell · August 21, 2011

Well I only decided to write this review because I read all the reviews already posted here.

I have two vengeance 135's my exit weight is 225lb giving a wing loading of 1.67

The Following table is taken from the PD website and it is spot on. As you can see I am loading my vengeance to the MAX that PD recommend for expert, although I wouldn't call myself expert, just very experienced.

Model Minimum Student Novice Int. Adv. Expert Max. (do not exceed)

Vengeance-089 VLC N/R N/R N/R 107 142 160
Vengeance-097 VLC N/R N/R N/R 116 155 175
Vengeance-107 VLC N/R N/R N/R 128 171 193
Vengeance-120 VLC N/R N/R N/R 144 192 216
Vengeance-135 VLC N/R N/R N/R 162 216 243
Vengeance-150 VLC N/R N/R N/R 180 238 270
Vengeance-170 VLC N/R N/R 136 204 255 285

I have 5000 jumps and over 2000 of those were done on my Vengeance canopy's. I originally bought the vengeance as what was at the time suggested to be the replacement for the Stiletto promising better performance in turbulence. I fell in love with it and purchased a second identical canopy for my second rig. The vengeance proved to be ideal as a canopy for camera. Working full time as a cameraman I needed a canopy that would get me down fast so I could film Tandem landings. That would open softly so I didn't break my neck and would cope with testing conditions. The Vengeance does all of that and more it has got me back from insane spots. It will stay up if kept on brakes. It will spiral like a demon. It will swoop from a straight in approach. It will stay inflated in the most turbulent conditions.

As far as the opening go the only time I ever had funky opening was when a packer started getting creative and wrapping stabilizers around brake lines. Less is more when it comes to packing.
1) Nose straight down the front, do not push it back.
2)Clear the material inside the canopy either side into the stabilizers symmetrically.
3) Quarter the slider so it shows a little in front of the nose.
4) Flake the tail, don't start folding it back around brake lines
5) bring the tail up and wrap it around, roll it nice a tight to get really gentle openings

Sure it is a high performance canopy it is meant to react quickly to small inputs so you do need to fly the opening. Be aware of your body position feel the way the harness loads up during opening and be ready on the back risers. The canopy will react to small inputs and if you are not being to inventive with your packing, I pretty much guarantee those small inputs are coming from you. If the vengeance didn't open well I couldn't have done over 2000 camera jumps with it. Above all I still find my vengeance is just fun to fly. (Cant understand why they stopped making the Vengeance while still manufacturing the Spinetto oh sorry I mean Stiletto LOL).

SurferSilver · February 11, 2011

This canopy doesn't pack as most of other ones.If you don't pay attention to how you pack this one it will give you wild openings with almost instant dive or spiral dive that will not recover without proper and immediate input. Pack it nicely and it will give you a little bit longer but soft on heading opening.Turns easy and nicely.
Tons of flare power on landing and good direction control.

brinary01 · April 8, 2009

Ok I got about 40 jumps on this canopy not much but I want to put in my two cents about the airlocks as this is the most distinct feature on this canopy and what really sets it apart from the other canopies I have flown, including Saber 2 190/170, and spector 230/210, and a few others not worth mentioning. Before buying this canopy I read a lot about it, and about the airlock technology. Three big issues mentioned downing the canopy on windy days, cutaways, and packing oh and openings I will address this separate.
Cutaway: well I had to chop it once it was diving when I cut it away and it did not go far and winds I think were around 8 to 10 knots that day I recovered it with no problem but this is a forgiving DZ if there were trees I would have been paying a tree service to get it back but in no way did it fly any more than other cutaways I have seen.
Packing: My canopy had about 400 jumps on it when I got it, I don’t know what every one is speaking of when they talk about it being hard to pack. To me it is not more difficult to pack than any other canopy of equal size in a equal size container, I am packing into a Jav J4 so it is going into a d-bag made for it. It is at the point were it is much easier to pack, but the issue is supposed to be with getting air out of it this has never been a problem.
Downing the canopy: this is the pain about this canopy windy it is a real pain, I don’t bother trying to stow my breaks on a windy day because I will end up fighting the canopy, I don’t bother trying to daisy chain the lines on a windy day because I will end up fighting the canopy. I get to the tail asap and shake it to get as much air out as possible, stick the toggles in there holders, and pick the lines up neatly pickup my d bag n pc then move out. On low wind days if I twist and down it on it’s side just right it will land on the ground up side down (still fully inflated) in this case I do the same as above but stow my breast, and daisy chain my lines.
Openings: not as bad as I had read but still kind of funky not bad at all if I fly the opening, and soft I have opened in a track and it did not slam me if not flown some times it is fine most of the time it opens in a dive, which can be a problem if you have line twist, and opened kind of low like below 3000 in my experience this was enough to chop it as I was loosing a lot of altitude quick I do not blame the canopy design for this as most of the issues that led to the cutaway could have been prevented and were a result of me being in a rush to pack, and opening lower than I planed to. So to summarize a lot of fun to fly, and other than downing the canopy, I like the airlock design, but as I jump in Spain it is quite windy very often, and I will replace it with something similar in a non air locked design if the right deal comes along. Hope this helps anyone considering this canopy.

The only reason I do not recommend it is because it is such a pain to down and sense there are so many canopies that are similar with out airlocks I would say go that way first, but if the price is right you wont be disappointed with the flight.

nicksoccer20 · August 2, 2008

I have approximately 30 jumps on my Vengance 135 now. The openings can be some what unpredictable! I have had the best openings i have ever had with any canopy on this thing. I have had some of the worst openings I've ever had(IE opening in line twist and spinning up). The canopy opens consistantly with regards to smoth and soft, it has yet to hurt me because of a hard opening.

I dare say that I have even jumped this thing with my wingsuit (Ghost) and I have still not had to cut it away, possibly luck????

I'm not big on swooping so I dont have much of an oppinion with regards to that. It has lighter front riser pressure then the stilleto, a bit more oversteer, and a lot longer recovery arc. Thats about the extent of what ive noticed. I really never do more then 90 degree turns with it on landing!

Well over it is a great canopy fun to fly as long as you can get it to open without chopping it!

PS. The airlocks are amazing in turbulance I cruse right through it!

SCR10480 · July 20, 2005

I have been waiting to add my review of the Vengeance, until I had a few jumps on it. Not that I don't appreciate the reviews written by folks that have made only 10 or 20 demo jumps on a canopy, I do...it's just that the "personality" of airlocked parachutes don't fit the common mold. Even though the Vengeance is often compared to the awesome Stiletto (what elliptical isn't)? I have found them to be, at best, distant cousins.

If you have read the other well written reviews here, you've noticed a common theme. Openings with the VN require immediate attention, (from line stretch to slider stow) if you want to have anything that resembles an on heading opening. If you try the "shoulders level, hips flat and feet together" routine, you're gonna get a very scenic ride! One really needs to be on the rears as soon as the Vengeance is out of the sack.

Once your Vengeance is out of the bag, and you have it settled down...Oh Baby! What a ride! I disagree with the reviews claiming that the Stiletto turns faster. My stiletto needs to be "told" to turn...my Vengeance seems to read my mind. I have found the VN to be both more responsive, and quicker to enter turns and dives than my ST. Riser pressure is also noticeably lighter on the VN compared to the ST. And as noted in other reviews, the VN will continue to dive, until told to do something else...where my Stiletto will recover on it's own.

When it comes to stability? Well, the Vengeance is in a class by itself. I jump in the "High Desert" of Central Oregon, and we get some pretty nasty air during summer. I've had my ST do some really weird stuff in the trash, and even had it "drop" me a few times. My VN on the other hand, gives me a rougher ride, but is always on top and immediately controllable.

Yes, in moderate ground winds airlocks can be somewhat embarrassing to gather...just follow Germain's instructions, and get over yourself! Look at it this way: If your friends aren't teasing you about "folding your air mattress" they will find something else!

Airlocks: "Rock and Roll is here to stay" (Brian Germain)

SkydiveMO · March 11, 2005

When I was looking to move into the world of ellipticals I had my heart set on an air locked canopy. I liked the idea of a canopy that resisted collapse in turbulence and retained its shape at slower speeds of flight. The choice was between Performance Design’s Vengeance and Big Air Sports’ Samurai. I test jumped the Samurai 136 first and found it very responsive to control inputs and fast in flight and landing. The recover arc was much longer then a Stiletto but I believe slightly shorter then the Vengeance. The Samurai was a little too responsive for my abilities at the time so I tried the Vengeance next. The Vengeance 135 was more subdued in toggle and riser response and tamer in its flight characteristics. Toggle turns are slow initially but after a couple rotations can match or exceed a Stiletto’s turn rate. The big difference that sets both the Samurai and Vengeance apart though is the glide. On a long spot all I have to do is unstow the breaks and pull slightly on the rear risers to flatten out the canopies glide angle and it will cover some real distance. The only canopy I’ve found that can out glide my Vengeance is the new Katana, which if it were available in a 135 yet I would highly consider. Another characteristic of the Vengeance is a long recovery arc, much longer then a Stiletto and nearly as long as my cross-braced canopy. I have had the most difficulty getting the timing right for front riser carves with my Vengeance. It dives a great deal before it starts to plain out. After a great deal of practice and some not so pretty landings I’ve started to become consistent swooping. Whether making a conservative straight in approach or cranking a 270 front riser turn the Vengeance blew away the Stiletto 135 and 150s I have jumped in both distance and flare power at the end of the swoop. After touching down if there is just a little wind the canopy will remain inflated and flying begging me to squeeze out that last bit of distance on the next jump.

My only complaints about my Vengeance are that the openings are just plain awkward and that on windy days canopy collection can be a chore. With the airlocks the cells do not inflate in a consistent order and the canopy does a lot of seeking before finally opening off heading. The openings are slow and comfortable and thanks to a long line set the off heading opening simply means a quick 90 or 180 turn that is easily stopped with rear riser input. Another characteristic caused by the long line set used on the Vengeance is over steer. I find often that coming out of a turn I have to counter steer as I am consistently overshooting my target. Like the dive this is all about the timing. My other complaint is that collecting the canopy on a windy day can be a chore. The airlocks are a dream in the air but a real pain on the ground. Following Brian Germain’s tips on collecting an air locked canopy really helps though.

I have made about 200 jumps on my Vengeance and am very happy with it as a progression canopy. Now that I’m more skilled as a canopy pilot and am confident in my abilities I think I’d prefer the higher performance of the Samurai. I would have no problem suggesting the Vengeance as an Intermediate level canopy to any jumper. It has a wide performance range and works great as an all-around canopy with a little pep in its step.

nina · August 13, 2003

I just did about ten jumps with a Vengeance 97 while normally jumping a Stiletto 107.
Had a great time getting much more swoops out of it. But will need a smaller one. My exit weight is between 140 and 150 lbs.

My rigger, who lent the canopy to me, told me to be aware of dives to the right after opening. It started doing those dives after great soft openings. When I discussed that with the owner he told me what PD had told him. A parachute is an individual.
I found that after the next jumps (anyway always hands on risers and no change in the packing-method) the canopy began to know me or other way round. I obviously learned to push down the left leg to stop it from diving. It never dove again.
What a beautiful storyÉ

I love this canopy Ñ thanks Brian.

nina

magnanp · May 28, 2003

I purchased a Vengeance 120 when they first came out (serial # 69) that was replaced by PD after about 80 jumps on it because of the ‘funny’ opening that where a little unpredictable. I can only praise PD for customer service as they tried very hard to fix the canopy, build me a new one, test jumped it and sent it back. I am very, very satisfied, enough that I purchased a 107 Vengeance as well.

I now have about 500 jumps on the 120 and 80 on the 107 that I sold this year as my jumping habits are not steady enough (winter) to ride this kind of canopy. My exit wait full gear is 195 Lbs for a wing loading of 1.6 on the 120 and 1.8 on the 107. The openings are nice and I avoid harness input but do have my hands ready on back risers to maintain heading if it goes off (once in a while). I found that straight packing works best, do not play with nose, don’t sink it in . Just flake it, quarter slider, roll the tail a little and great openings. To the best of my knowledge, PD does not recommend folding the nose (either 4x4 to center or otherwise).

This canopy is made for front risers, dives a lot and has great swoop but watch altitude loss and recovery it is much, MUCH more then the Stiletto. I sold my 107 after getting a perfect front riser 2700 carve out of it and realized that the swoop was getting out of hand for where I jump (limited landing space) and the dive was very pronounced. Big difference between 120 and 107 at my wing loading. I love this canopy and yes it is very solid in turbulence.

Last comments from personal experience. I did crash into the ground due to an unscheduled power line in a demo jump (no room to comment on my own stupidity here) and paid my dues (51/2 week hospital stay and 1 year in rehab-training with two Titanium bars as a reminder). For those who consider this canopy at a wing loading of 1.5 or higher, 500 jumps in the last 2-3 years and a course on front risers canopy handling should be considered a minimum !! and get a good briefing (there is a ‘delay’ on flare). If you doubt this, 2 persons I know hit hard after less then 10 jumps on brand new Vengeance they purchased (after trying mine). They both tried over 900 turns and found out that this canopy dives a lot, and both have over 1000 jumps. Be careful, have fun, blue skies.

flipper · September 12, 2002

My exp : 850 jumps on stiletto 120

before i bought the veng 120 i did around 30 jumps on the 107.
i found the 107 to open better than the stiletto 120 slightly faster but more positive, in flight the canopy handles very stiletto like...thats the best way to describe it. At landing time I found there to lots of lift with a change in swoop direction to be very easy to do.

I bought the 120 because i found the 107 to be faster than i needed. i find the 120 to be as per the 107 only just a little bit slower

now there is some discussion as to whether the airlocks will cut out the turbulence hassle...I cant really comment on whether they do or not but i can say that the chute feels more solid than the stiletto 120 with no concertina effect

I have found the chute requires rear riser control as soon as its opened to keep it on heading

front riser input is easier than a stiletto...less pressure and it stays in the dive alot longer as well ...so if your gonna hook it...do it higher (a lot)

hope this info is of help

flipper

michaelmiller · March 13, 2002

Openings are soft and very manageable. Riser and or harness input is needed to keep on heading. If you want speed, stability and lots of fun in spirals or full flight order this canopy now. Riser pressure is not too heavy and the canopy responds very well to all input. Leave the nose alone for the best openings! Roll the tail lightly. Swooooooooops like a demon. Get ready for a flight you won't forget...

Mikey

Dillinger · January 10, 2002

Every canopy is different, same size or same model does´nt matter. I use 135 Vengeance and i was 95 kg if I ordered that. Seems too slow...so I ate a lot and now I have 103 kg and still same 135 Vengeance. Canopy seems faster, ya´see. Packing tricks are different but if canopi is end cell closured then it is. Swoop is nice and fast turn if You can do like this.... good canopy.

webracer · October 1, 2001

After 9 jumps on the Vengeance 150 demo I have from PD, here are my comments:
I am a first-year skydiver, with 200 jumps so far this year.
I have had intermediate canopy training from some skilled HP canopy pilots
I have been jumping a Sabre 170 with excellent landings & control
My exit weight is 225.
The flight of the vengeance is superb to the sabre, in both turbulent and smooth skies. Landing the vengeance required very little adjustment from my sabre technique. Mostly I realize more lift at slower speeds (farther into the surf), and that the last few inches of toggle input do much more than on the sabre.
Turns are much faster, and diving is quite a bit steeper. Less g-force in saddle on toggle spirals than sabre.
I have not tried any high performance landings with the canopy yet, but have landed it in conditions from 0-15mph wind.
Openings are the biggest change. I am learning to fly the opening, which is slow enough to watch and react to. Three openings resulted in corkscrew dives, the first was corrected with brake release, the second two were corrected by steering with my body in the harness prior to releasing brakes. It appears to me that this opening behavior will be completely controllable with more time in the saddle.
I have not had end cell closures as of yet
I would guess the canopy I have has 250-400 jumps (based upon fabric condition) and new lines.
I am waiting also for a Samurai 150, and will review that after I get some jumps on it. I plan to put another 10-15 on the vengeance next weekend prior to sending it back.
Troy C
[email protected]

ramon · August 29, 2001

If you are looking for an intermediate canopy in between stilleto class performance and a cross braced, I think this is it. Hooking high is much safer than hooking low and this canopy is capable of hooking almost as high as some cross braced canopies and certainly much higher than a typical eliptical. I have put about 40 jumps on a Vengeance 135 (loaded 1.67). The only other canopies I can think of that might be able to do a snap 180 hook followed by double front in the dive from 350-400 feet and have a nice surf would be an Alpha/Cobalt or a crossfire (at this wing loading). but with the vengeance you get the benefit of a negative recovery arc incase you hook at 500 or you let off your double fronts too early. This canopy is more fun in the toggles than a samurai and seems to be much easier to flare and surf (although the samurai can probably surf as far). The flare seems like an Alpha, sure, crisp and in control less spongy than a crossfire. This canopy also seems to have a pretty low stall speed for this loading, I was taking a few more steps on a crossfire.
It is not really versatile, it seems to want to come down pretty fast, however you can pull the brakes deeper than when they are stowed and slow your descent to make way for traffic or get back from a long spot (althouh pulling rear risers is probably better).

The rumors about size are right if you jump a 135 try a 120. The 135 will seem like a dog (but it will dive). Basically the canopy flies and stops like a bigger canopy but it surfs like a smaller/faster one.

Oh yeah, it has airlocks if your into that and it is supposed to be more stable in turbulence, but that is not why I bought it

brandonpark · August 6, 2001

Here it is, step by step.
1) flake your canopy
2) quarter the slider with about 3 inches in front of the nose
3) fold the four outside cells to the sides of the center cell
4) spread the front of the slider around these folds to hold them in place
5) flake the stabilizer edges and tuck them between the slider and the line groups
6) wrap the tail and roll it fairly tight without dislodging the stabilizer edges
7) lay it down and fold the sides under each other twice to bag width
8) s-fold it and stuff it in the bag.

It sounds like a lot but it really doesn't take any extra time. I also stow the d-bag with the lines against the back pad for a better launch during deployment. (this mat not work with your container)

iamcool · April 28, 2001

I totally agrre that the vengeance is one of the best flying swooping, and landing canopies available. However, there is NO problem with end cell closure if you pack it right. I have over 120 jumps on my 107 and NEVER have end cell closure. I recommend this canopy to anyone who likes the idea of flying an airborne "porsche". To the "end cell" folk, try leaving the nose and flaking your stabilizers.

Blue Ones All,
A Freefly 'Perris'ite

February 5, 2001

Having been exposed to the parachuting propaganda of airlocks and so forth, I decided to jump on the wagon and ordered a 120. I could sit here and write a thesis on this canopy but instead I'll give you the meat and potatoes in 6 jumps that I jumped the canopy... 4 times I had end cell closures, which made me think this canopy is just another stiletto with locks, the opening sequence is smooth and soft, its when the parachute inflates in the final opening stage that you have to do a 180 because you had a severe end cell. But once its flying, the ride is sweet and fast, the toggles are responsive and ready to rock on command, the minute you dump those front risers this thing becomes a speed demon !!! yeah, !!! The landings are fast and controlled, the brakes are responsive and the flare is phenomenal, overall, I think I made a good investment, I would however,, like to have ordered the 107.

January 28, 2001

I am a retread (second time around and started jumping in 1971 and jumped early ram airs) and have 1800 jumps. I weight 190 # and have aprox 800 jumps on a Viper 120 and 72 on my Vengance.

I ordered my Vengance last winter then we had a demo 120 at our DZ, and couple of us jumped it. We had snakey openings on the demo. From what we heard this was not typical.

I recieved my Vengance mid summer and was only able to get 72 jumps on it. My canopy opens just like the Demo - SNAKEY. It is fine in the snivel but when the slider comes down you HAVE TO BE FLYING THE REAR RISERS! It has frequent end cell closures and it will really turn up. Talked to PD and they indicate there are some out there that are not quite right. After two cutaways in the last 6 jumps, enough was enough, so back it went to PD. Its been back to back to PD for 2 months and PD says they will make it right.

Now the good points, once it is flying I love the canopy. It is a solid flying canopy. It takes bigger inputs than a Stiletto ar my Viper but it is predictible with long fast dives and swoops. My Pro Ditter often goes off in my ear as I turn the corner to land.

When PD gets it fixed, It will be a very good canopy.

November 15, 2000

Unlike the previous jumpers I have little experience. With just over 200 jumps to date. My previous main was a sabre 150. I was looking for a little more performance with out killing myself. I,m very happy with the smooth head on openings and the great stability in turbulent air. The landing caracteristics seemed very natural and I enjoyed the long swoop availability if desired unlike the sabre.

At this time the only thing I would change is I would have bought a 120 instead of the 135. I'm 5'7 and 155lbs. Maybe that says everything, even with the little experience that I have I had no problem with adapting to this new main ( even on my first jump ) do to the preditability of the chute.

August 30, 2000

Well, Mr. Blue just about stole all of my thunder. I likewise ordered a Vengeance without making a single jump on one.I was downsizing anyway so I ordered a 120. With 2000 jumps, most of them having a camera on my head, I was a little leery about openings in particular, this is a WONDERFUL product!I have bought one for both of my rigs, and have even considered ordering an 89 just to play with from time to time. At 5'10" 170 lbs, a 120 is a very forgiving canopy, but you can crank the hell out of it if you so desire.

The only minor problem that I seem to be having is end cell closure on opening, which induces a sudden turn, this too shall be figured out though.

I've jumped pretty much most sizes of everything, so I've got an ok perspective, on performance. The folks at PD had me completely happy with the Stilletto, and then they had to go and improve on it, shucks. OK, end of story, all good things to say about this canopy, I love it and am completely sold on the product!!!!

Almost forgot, have had a cutaway on one of mine, my fault not the canopy's, and it did not stay inflated and fly to the next state, it just kind of turned itself into a little ball and fell right in front of manifest -- can't beat a good spot.

May 5, 2000

My experience: 2,425 jumps; skydiving 19 years; SL and Tandem I; 4-way guy; 5'7", 155lbs (plus 12 for four-way); haven't jumped a main larger than a 110 in over five years.

After jumping a Stiletto 97 until it was well overdue for a replacement, I decided to try something else. I contemplated long and hard on a VX or a Velocity in the 70-something range, but Raeford is BUSY with non-experienced canopy pilots, and as an instructor I didn't want to be part of the problem. So, after reading all the propaganda about the Vengeance and having talked to several of the test jumpers, I decided to go ahead and order a 97. I did so without having demo'd one at all, in any size (probably dumb). My first inkling that I had made a poor size choice came when we got the first Vengeance demo canopy at Raeford; it was a 135. Everyone I know who REALLY works their Stiletto 135 that tried the Vengeance said that it flew great, but they would rather jump one one size smaller. This was one month into my order. I had specifically asked my friends at PD what the evaluators said about stepping down. They told me that most of the test jumpers said they were happiest with the same size Vengeance as the Stiletto they liked. This having been said, I went against my first thought (of getting the 89) and bought the 97. I tried to change my order one month into it, but was told the main was already cut. After an 11 week wait, my main arrived yesterday. I made two jumps on it today and here are my observations:
-The canopy opens great, even after the horrible time I had getting that brand new bastard into the bag. You all know what I mean! It was on-heading both times and was as soft as my Stiletto.
-The canopy has a great forward glide; quite a bit more than my Stiletto. It is slightly more "ground hungry", but not excessively so, like a Velocity.
-The brakes are very "mushy" as compared to a Stiletto. The control range is down around your waist, and nothing happens till you get the toggles down that far. Granted, I like my brakes plenty loose so as to not get in the way when I do my one-riser hook turn or correct my path with both front risers, but this is different. I dumped at 6,000 on the first jump and just practiced hard turns and practice hooks. I ended up doing a fantastic surf on both jumps, without getting "too deep" in the corner before I found the proper flare point. This is one rock-solid parachute. It does not get squirrely one bit in turbulence so far as I have seen. I have been told my several people that the brakes on FXs and VXs are likewise "deep". I don't mind it, it is just different.
-Front risers turns/hooks require about the same input as my Stiletto; brakes require more input.
-Landings are outstanding. I get a longer swoop with this main than my same-sized Stiletto.

Bottom Line: I am happy with my new Vengeance, but I REALLY should have bought one a size smaller, like I originally intended. Not that a 97 isn't a small canopy, but I am positive I would have liked the 89 better.

Chuck Blue
D-12501

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