What Can We Do About Skyride II

Ryan, you keep ignoring the question how did chris martins phone number end up re-directing to skyrde when he died. Its not hard question

Would someone over in the States please try calling these 'people' and ask to do a Tandem Paraglider or Hang glider flight and see what thay say - I'm sure that they have tried to trash that sport too.

and i have answered it like three times WE did not take his number the phone company did an investigation and so did the police they both stated that the number was never forwareded nor was it change or bought out so it never happened thats why nothing happened to us because it wasnt us. You can even check public records and see if a number was ever bought or changed

no we have good standings with all the other sports/events So that should say something.. Not to mention the partnerships we have.

Thanks - I hope that I haven't just given you a lead tho

no but i might just start signing on drop zones in Europe... ha ha j/k or am i?

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no we have good standings with all the other sports/events So that should say something.. Not to mention the partnerships we have.

Does not seen so. This was taken from one of the complaint sites that I posted a link to.

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I run a glider ride operation in the San Francisco Bay area http://www.BayAreaGliderRides.com and we have had many unhappy customers calling us to complain about these guys. I have even had them schedule me for a glider ride at my own location when I called even though there is not a glider ride location in the state of California that honors their certificates. They later told me that the operation in my area was now closed and I would need to go to another state. They seemed to be willing to say anything to get me to give them my credit card number.

The glider ride operators have set up a site to help educate the public about the problem and give a directory of the real operators in the country. http://www.GliderSailplaneRides.com This website also shows all the glider ride operators in the country plus the few operators that still do accept the certificates from this company. Hopefully by employees coming forward like this we will be able to convince the few service providers that are still honoring their certificates that they are not a company to be associated with. Google and Yahoo are not willing to remove them from their search engines or even their paid sponsor ads because they say they are worried of being sued since most customers that are scammed never complain to them. They need proof so please claim to the companies with the power to remove these guys from there main sources they use to commit this fraud.

Please help get the word out. This has been going on for years and it is very frustrating how they can not be stopped. It not only hurts the customer but all the businesses that provide these rides and activities.

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no we have good standings with all the other sports/events So that should say something

Again, Like most everything that SKyride says, This too is a lie. Ballooning has the same Problems with your operation. Read here.

we have heard from many of them over the years with the exact same complaints.

Oh and Ryan you might want to read the one about the employee that can't seem to get their last pay check. You too will have this problem someday.

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WE did not take his number the phone company did an investigation and so did the police they both stated that the number was never forwareded nor was it change or bought out so it never happened thats why nothing happened to us because it wasnt us. You can even check public records and see if a number was ever bought or changed

This reply is all horseshit.

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WE did not take his number the phone company did an investigation and so did the police they both stated that the number was never forwareded nor was it change or bought out so it never happened thats why nothing happened to us because it wasnt us. You can even check public records and see if a number was ever bought or changed

This reply is all horseshit.

I know, i was there when Beezy called the number. I think someone should record a conversation with these pricks and podcast it...Wait, they have. I'll see if i can get the guy to post it

Just because you do not like the answer it doesn't make it horse shit

its true im sure if you call the phone company if you have access they can tell you that there was an investigation and it turned up nothing but hey you seem to only believe what you want to.

So Billy was there not an investigation? if so what did it turn up, what was the outcome of it?

Why did the police do nothing seems like if that happened someone would have been held accountable for it but then again i guess you cannot charge the innocent

The person that knew the most about this and helped fix it, Beezy Shaw, is dead now.Do you want to call him a liar? I know there were people that called the number to Tullahoma and were routed to Skyride. Same as what you said to Billy if I put you in touch with those people ,and I'm sure I could ,you would not believe them.

As I recall the reason nothing was done is they could not prove who actually made the call to switch the number. Seems the phone company is not use to dealing with scumbags so they don't have a system in place to record every call. Another loop hole in favor of Skyride.

Tell you what, come to The Farm this weekend and you can meet Chris Martins widow and call her a liar to her face. Or call Mike Mullins, he knows about this. You can call him a liar too.

Fuck man, why would we make all of this shit up? I don't even know anyone twisted enough to make up the phone number scam.

Oh and I'll get the guy that use to own Blue Sky Adventures to post his story here again. Cary did the same thing to him when they went to look at his DZ thinking about buying it. You can call him a liar too.

Walks away shaking head.

Look i am not calling anybody a liar but the phone company did have records of ALL the phone calls made and NONE of them were forwarded to us the records they had were pretty extensive it even included the last time someone inquired about the account its just weird that they even called back the last incoming calls to the line and asked them several questions but nothing turned up (but if like i said if it did happen its wrong)

Look if it did happen its really really fucked up but you cannot just say something happened without some back up thats like me saying George bush II is a good president without having anything to back it up. I look it everything from both sides. and i have spoken to Mike before.

Blue sky adventures? what would be wrong about him Buying a DZ? i haven't heard this one

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Look i am not calling anybody a liar but the phone company did have records of ALL the phone calls made and NONE of them were forwarded to us the records they had were pretty extensive it even included the last time someone inquired about the account its just weird that they even called back the last incoming calls to the line and asked them several questions but nothing turned up (but if like i said if it did happen its wrong)

Look if it did happen its really really fucked up but you cannot just say something happened without some back up thats like me saying George bush II is a good president without having anything to back it up. I look it everything from both sides. and i have spoken to Mike before.

Blue sky adventures? what would be wrong about him Buying a DZ? i haven't heard this one

there is plenty to back it up.. just come to the farm this weekend , we will talk about it over a beer, and you can meet the people who will back it up 100% without any hearsay or bullshit. straight from their mouths.

pretty cool peeps at the farm, you will like it. no doubt about that.

how can you dropzones that do not exist?

you tarnish the sport by pissing off potential comerbackers so everyone thinks its a scam - considering the cost of learnnig too you don't help.

i mean do you have any dignity?

pity all the good businesses that get closed down and scumbag operastions like yours profit.

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I just got a PM from a person ( who did have the guts to list his name and put that he was the business development director for skyride) who basicly called me a liar concerning the skyride web site that listed the University of Iowa Jumping Hawkeyes.

Well, the Hawkeyes are not listed because I know the U of I called them telling them to stop using the trade mark but, the Iowa City search is still there. There is no DZ in or within an hour of Iowa City except for Skydive Iowa that is in Brooklyn Iowa

http://www.1800skyride.com/Skydiving/IowaCity/directions.html

edited to add; Paradise Skydives is an hour and half north. Neither acept skyride certs

I wish to post a retraction here. I miss-understood the point of the PM I posted about here. He was basically trying to tell me he could not find the web information I spoke of. He was trying to verify it or not. While the information I posted about was real, he was not calling me a liar. I will apologize to him here and now for my mistake.

Look dude, call it what you will, but if you ran an honest business, you would have four websites. One each for your actual dropzones, and one that is CLEARLY and OPENLY a booking service, that includes a page of all DZs that participate in your program, with their actual locations.

Someone mentioned Expedia, fine let's use that example. You go to Expedia, and they tell you straight up what hotel they can book you into. They tell you where it is, and everything about THE ACTUAL HOTEL you'll be staying in.

Expedia buys their rooms in bulk, and can offer a rate that is less than the hotel will offer you if you call them directly. That's where they make their money. Adverstise the piss out of it, make it easy for the consumer, and save the consumer money.

What you do is different. You have to trick the customer into buying a jump at DZ that you just make up for the sake of getting the sale. True, you may have a DZ in the area you can route them to, but you do not reveal this until AFTER you have their money.

The reason being is that you charge more than the DZ would charge on their own. For this reason, you cannot reveal the actual service provider for fear the customer will deal directly with them.

If you follwed the traditional bookign service business model, you would be buying your tandems in bulk from the DZ, and reselling them for the same rate (or maybe less) than the DZ.

No amount of semantics or side-stepping will change what you do. If it was above baord, then you wouldn't have lawsuits against you.

I run a business, and I have competitors. We go after the same customers, and sometimes I get them, sometimes not. Sometimes I even manage to take a customer away from my competition. Whatever happens, it's all ETHICAL and ABOVE BOARD and for that reason, nobody is sueing me.

The long and the short of it, if you want some of the skydiving dollars in a certain goegraphic area, OPEN A DZ AND DO THE WORK. Otherwise, leave that area to people who are willing to do so.

Here's a few other thoughts -

Where I jump, when we book a tandem, if the weather is going to be bad, we'll call them and advise them of this.

Can you do this for your 'customers'?

Lets say the weather looks like it will break, adn we expect to start flying, we'll call them back, and advise them of this.

Can you do this for your 'customers'?

Also, one thing to keep in mind as you try to justify your business practices - Skydiving is not an emerging market. There is no breakthrough that will suddenly cause the market to grow tenfold. We're dealing with a limited number of potential customers, and therefore a limited number of dollars to be made.

Long before Skyride it was no secret that running a DZ is not a big money maker. Especially when you consider the cost of AC, and gear, and the number of hours needed to run the place.

Where is it that you think Skyride fits into that?


You guys are using business practices that you may be able to apply to an emerging market, a situaiton where the customer demand is pushing the limits of the supply. Even then, you're on thin ethical ice with the way you operate.

Like I said, this isn't that market. Skydiving is a cottage industry which doesn't have room for the antics you guys are trying to pull.

How long do you personally expect to keep jumping? Longer than Skyride is in existance? Do you really want to openly associate yourself with them?

Don't be surprised to find youself less then 'welcome' at soem DZ in the years to come. Skyride won't be around forever, but the memories will go on and on.

Ryan,
I would love to extend an invitation to you this weekend to come to Skydive The Farm for my husband's memorial ashdive. Unfortunately, Kristi Martin will not be able to make it. We spoke at length today, and the grief of losing her husband and one of her best friends so closely together is more than she can bear. However, I will be there and would love to talk with you. As was said, Beezy knew more about it than anyone... except his wife with whom he shared everything. Please come over and celebrate Beezy's life with us. If not, at least look towards heaven at sunset tomorrow and do a litlle soul searching.

Mrs. Beezy Shaw

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WE did not take his number the phone company did an investigation and so did the police they both stated that the number was never forwareded nor was it change or bought out so it never happened thats why nothing happened to us because it wasnt us. You can even check public records and see if a number was ever bought or changed

This reply is all horseshit.

Not necessarily directed at Billy but unless you can counter a statement with reason, replying in this way adds nothing to the discussion and is not welcome.

Likewise calling people pricks and scumbags. Rise above it people. Be better than them.

IM just curious here about people who skydive and work for skyride.... Would it be likely to see any of you lot at the dropzone.com xmas boogie held at Eloy?

The reason I ask is because i imagine that if i pissed so many people off in a way that is such a serious matter to them like this one seems to be, I would personally believe that i would feel in a word, I guess... Sacred to be honest.

Now, I believe standing up for what you believe in is a noble thing, I also beieve that it is much different if you just stand up for something because you work for them etc.... Anyway, This thread just makes me wonder if someone like yourself Ryan would be affraid to go to a dropzone.com boogie, or would do you think you have the ability to go and feel comfortable?

I am not suggesting you go or dont go, I ma just wondering how comfortable you think you would feel around the larger skydiving community at such an event. I am neither suggesting anything, just wondering. I think personaly, if i was in your position that my imagination would scare the shit out of me about attending one of these. At the same time i know nobody would do anything physical about it on the dz.


Also... have you guys ever thought of putting a skyride tent up at the WFFC and inviting all your staff out for the week to see what skydiving is all about? Maybe you could advertise to your customers something like 'experience the skydive community' and sell tickets to your customers to come and party at the WFFC? Maybe you could even have AFF instructors out there teaching skydiving to skyride customers?

Another question... Does skyrde give back to the sport? Sure you sell tandems and some people get paid for them, I would not really call that giving back though... You guys are trying to sell tickets for skydiving all over the country, for it to be even remotley possible for you guys to make it a success at doing this then you are relying on other dropzones to take your customers up... Have you ever though of giving back? Ever thought of donating jumps for the charity fundraisers or a load for the world team records, or anything to say thanks to the community for accepting your tickets?

Why dont you give something back in a huge way and do something really good for the community? Maybe you could hold a '20,000 jump boogie', find a dropzone or even one that you guys own and pay for the first 20,000 jumps, you guys eat the cost... skydivers could come from all over the country and have a good time, maybe it could be for tandem masters and DZO's only to attend, and they buy their jump tickets for $5 each and every cent that they pay is given as charity to the USPA or a charity like breast cancer that so many skydivers get behind.

Just a thought, but how come you have not done anything to say thanks instead of just taking?


Personally, i would like to have a successful skydive operation one day, however i hope that if i ever had the money to do that i would firstly hold a boogie like that, I would call it the free one million dollar boggie. All jumps would be charged at the price of free +donation of a note to a charity. Would be amazing advetising and amazing charity as well as doing something for the sport.

Can we expect skyride to do anything to say thank you.


Btw, i noticed you said as a joke or a threat that you might start doing this in europe. That kind of shows me that you have no clue about europe.. In most countries in Europe, well lets just say, things are handled differently. If you could even be allowed to do such a thing with all the federations in the different countries you would then have to deal with a different breed of people. The court of Law is not something you would have to worry about. Also with the US dollar so weak and being a foreigner you could not afford to pay your taxes. for every tandem you sold in england you would be giving the dropzone $360 usd.

As you have been invited to go to Beezys Memorial, I hope you have the balls and the respect to go. However, I would understand you not going if you are a coward or your immagination makes you think that you would get eaten alive.. However skydivers arent like that so ont let your imagination put off going and showing that you are disrespectful.

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The reason I ask is because i imagine that if i pissed so many people off in a way that is such a serious matter to them like this one seems to be, I would personally believe that i would feel in a word, I guess... Sacred to be honest.

What ever fills your hymnal.

I find that hard to believe I called Tullahoma and the "Skydive Center" answered, when she found out who I was and what my question was in regards too (military Training DZ) she admitted she was in Atlanta, and stated that ASC/Skyride had PURCHASED the DZ in TN and would re-open soon. I called Mike Mullins about it and asked him since I had been told he was partnered with Beezy, Mike was PISSED as well as Beezy.

Maybe you didn't forward the number, maybe you had a FAKE web page copied and we mistakenly used that carbon copy page ? With a direct number to you?

I was then referred to a DZ in KY to train at that was a Skyride Affiliate.

We chose not to go there as there is a little on going Military Consumer Affairs investigation going on about Skyride and all it s fake-ness.

If you do not service areas you don't have affiliates what is this?

http://www.1800skyride.com/Skydiving/Clarksville/

Totally fake and misleading and currently posted as of 10:28 am 17 NOV 2007.

Go ahead and call me a liar again, but the web page is yours.