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QuoteBut they are paying to be there, Randy - they're paying their sponsored teams
You are correct Andy, but so are the sponsor's that also pay to have a booth there.
QuoteAnd without the teams, most of which could not compete at top level (if exist at all), there'd be no competition in the first place.
You are correct but i think that most people that advertising works on also just look on the back's of the pro's to see what they are jumping.
QuoteThe way I see it, the event hosts and/or the "official" sponsors are shooting themselves in the foot.
That is very possiable! We shall see if it effects anything.
Nothing opens like a Deere!
You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!
You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!
Quote***I'm not sure what fucknut in the USPA thought it would be a good idea to pull the rug out from under the competitors, in an effort to 'partner' with the hosting dropzone. No offence Skydive Spaceland, but there's a fair chance that in 2010 Nationals will be far, far away from south Texas. Meanwhile, all the competitors will still be there, wherever it is.
Talk about not knowing what side your bread is buttered on, the USPA has really missed the mark on this one. Are the people in the home office even USPA members? It seems like they go out of their way to fuck over the general population in any way they can.
I believe the fucknuts in question work for someone other than USPA. And yes, the people in the "home office" are USPA members, but sadly they do not go out of their way to fuck over the general population in any way they can. Get your facts right before throwing a group of hard working, well-intentioned people under the bus.
That doesn't excuse the board and/or any staff members from responsibility if they knew all this was planned when they awarded Nationals to Spaceland. In any case, isn't there a way to talk about the (apparently) bad decisions made by people without calling them fucknuts and claiming they do all they can to hurt jumpers? In other words, can we maybe act like intelligent adults?
Blue Skies Mag
grimmie 180
If a sponsored team isn't selling their product, who cares what is flown or seen?
NASCAR event gets sponsored by Coors Light and Skoal for TV and the event. Does that mean the Viagra car, the Interstate Battery car and the Miller MGD car have to be painted a solid color?
UFC gets sponsor money from Monster or Red Bull, does that mean all the fighters come out in shorts and shirts with no sponsors on them?
Toyota sponsors the Long Beach Grand Prix. Does that mean no Honda cars?
If a skydive team is sponsored by an entity, but they aren't selling that product at Nationals, why in the hell can't they display a windblade or packing tent with their logo on it?
This is shortsighted on the part of Spaceland and USPA.
Teams need sponsors.
"And the gold medal goes to Arizona Airsp...Oops, wait. Three guys and a girl from somewhere in the Southwest!"
If we want skydiving to be that mainstream then let's start jumping at 5 star resorts with great facilities.
NASCAR event gets sponsored by Coors Light and Skoal for TV and the event. Does that mean the Viagra car, the Interstate Battery car and the Miller MGD car have to be painted a solid color?
UFC gets sponsor money from Monster or Red Bull, does that mean all the fighters come out in shorts and shirts with no sponsors on them?
Toyota sponsors the Long Beach Grand Prix. Does that mean no Honda cars?
If a skydive team is sponsored by an entity, but they aren't selling that product at Nationals, why in the hell can't they display a windblade or packing tent with their logo on it?
This is shortsighted on the part of Spaceland and USPA.
Teams need sponsors.
"And the gold medal goes to Arizona Airsp...Oops, wait. Three guys and a girl from somewhere in the Southwest!"
If we want skydiving to be that mainstream then let's start jumping at 5 star resorts with great facilities.
If we want skydiving to be that mainstream then let's start jumping at 5 star resorts with great facilities
I do, ...Spaceland!
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
dqpacker 7
Once again.
Jumpsuits with patches, Canopies with a Companies logo, helmets, Shoes, Gloves, Jock-straps, panties, t-shirts, etc.
are allowed.
Jumpsuits with patches, Canopies with a Companies logo, helmets, Shoes, Gloves, Jock-straps, panties, t-shirts, etc.
are allowed.
Rich i understand what your saying. But they are allowing all gear to have logo's. I dont see a big deal in not allowing tent and wind blade logo's. You can bet most manufactors will be represented there. So what is the issue with allowing the paid (paying to display) sponsers to get more advertisment for there dollar?
Nothing opens like a Deere!
You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!
You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!
QuoteHi Andy,
We are slowly but surely getting to USPA, Inc.
They are only chasing the money, EVERYWHERE.
JerryBaumchen
Jerry,
For several years now skydivers have been saying skydiving has to become more mainstream. They say by going mainstream you can bring more money into the sport. Well folks welcome to the big time. And I see it going downhill from here.
A couple of years ago I posted that I felt the attitude of a small minority of new jumpers would end up killing the sport. Airtardo disagreed and said it would be economics that do skydiving in. Well Jim I now think you are right.
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
billvon 2,822
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>but I would guess that Spaceland is only trying to insure the companies
>that have actually PAID to be there in a marketing capacity, get the most
>bang for their buck.
Of course, although it's Spaceland AND USPA.
But let's look at this from a different perspective. Say you ride a Harley-Davidson and belong to a motorcycle club. Call them the United Motorcyclists of America. You pay $50 a year to them just to say you're a member. They in turn provide some training courses (which you have to pay for) talk to the DOT for you about helmets and expend some effort talking to the police about fair treatment of motorcyclists.
There's one big event that the UMA puts on a year. You pack up your stuff and prepare to make the ride to talk motorcycles, meet old friends, buy stuff and ride.
Then two weeks before the event you find out that Harley-Davidson won't be allowed there. This year only Kawasaki will be allowed to have booths and representatives because they paid the UMA lots of money. Would you still go? Would you feel that that $50 was still a good investment?
>Pay for the event by raising USPA membership dues a few hundred
>percent and listen to the arguments from people not going and having to
>pay, as membership numbers drop and the organization goes under.
Given that they've run it up until now on the dues we're paying now, I don't see that as a realistic scenario.
>that have actually PAID to be there in a marketing capacity, get the most
>bang for their buck.
Of course, although it's Spaceland AND USPA.
But let's look at this from a different perspective. Say you ride a Harley-Davidson and belong to a motorcycle club. Call them the United Motorcyclists of America. You pay $50 a year to them just to say you're a member. They in turn provide some training courses (which you have to pay for) talk to the DOT for you about helmets and expend some effort talking to the police about fair treatment of motorcyclists.
There's one big event that the UMA puts on a year. You pack up your stuff and prepare to make the ride to talk motorcycles, meet old friends, buy stuff and ride.
Then two weeks before the event you find out that Harley-Davidson won't be allowed there. This year only Kawasaki will be allowed to have booths and representatives because they paid the UMA lots of money. Would you still go? Would you feel that that $50 was still a good investment?
>Pay for the event by raising USPA membership dues a few hundred
>percent and listen to the arguments from people not going and having to
>pay, as membership numbers drop and the organization goes under.
Given that they've run it up until now on the dues we're paying now, I don't see that as a realistic scenario.
Krip 2
Hi Nice lady
Looks like spaceland found a loophole in their contract with USPA to host the nationals this year
.
To bad so sad it's to late to do anything now except discuss, debate, wine etc.
If USPA wants to close this "partner protection" loophole than it can be done by a mod to the boiler plate contract for future Nationals.
If splaceland finds this mod to a future contract unacceptable then they won't have to submit a bid to host the next nationals.
Where's my easy button
FWIW I'm not a lawyer
One Jump Wonder
Then two weeks before the event you find out that Harley-Davidson won't be allowed there. This year only Kawasaki will be allowed to have booths and representatives because they paid the UMA lots of money. Would you still go? Would you feel that that $50 was still a good investment?
Where does it say 'Harley' won't be allowed?
You can bring your bike, yer shirt, your ugly cat named 'Harley'...You just can't put up a tent/booth with Harley Davidson on it, unless you pay the same that Kawasaki does.
I hear a bunch of people bitching...I'm curious, who exactly will this effect negatively and exactly HOW?
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
Airtardo disagreed and said it would be economics that do skydiving in.
Well Jim I now think you are right.
Boy...I bet THAT hurt!
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
Quote
Airtardo disagreed and said it would be economics that do skydiving in.
Well Jim I now think you are right.
Boy...I bet THAT hurt!
Not a bit, been wrong before.
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
Let's recap using last year's nationals as an example.
PD wind blades in the landing area: OK
Bud Light signs and cypres wind blades: Good to go!
President of Aerodyne handing out free t-shirts: BZZZZZZ! He didn't pay his advertising bill! Send him home!
I can understand rules like this if the non-official advertising gets out of hand. If people were putting up windblades all over the facility, or hanging signs that look "approved." But that's just not what happens, is it? I wonder how much it would cost to hand out free t-shirts at spaceland's nationals?
Edit: Just to be clear, these are examples only... I have no clue whether or not PD and Aerodyne were official sponsors.
Dave
PD wind blades in the landing area: OK
Bud Light signs and cypres wind blades: Good to go!
President of Aerodyne handing out free t-shirts: BZZZZZZ! He didn't pay his advertising bill! Send him home!
I can understand rules like this if the non-official advertising gets out of hand. If people were putting up windblades all over the facility, or hanging signs that look "approved." But that's just not what happens, is it? I wonder how much it would cost to hand out free t-shirts at spaceland's nationals?
Edit: Just to be clear, these are examples only... I have no clue whether or not PD and Aerodyne were official sponsors.
Dave
Twardo,,,as usual you are spot on. Try this stuff at any Major Pro Sport event and you won't last 2 hours. As usual DZ.Commers are splitting pubic hairs and whining.........if you are not one of those folks looking to hawk your wares,,,why even comment sit back watch what happens and then whine....
smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083
FB # - 1083
NASCAR event gets sponsored by Coors Light and Skoal for TV and the event. Does that mean the Viagra car, the Interstate Battery car and the Miller MGD car have to be painted a solid color?
Quote
Last year SPRINT and RCR(sponsored by AT&T) had an issue. Because the NASCAR series was sponsored by Sprint, Sprint didn't want to allow RCR to run the AT&T sponsorship. RCR threatened suit and RCR continued to run the AT&T car.
I would think with all the experience that the USPA has with ANTI TRUST LAWSUITS, that USPA would do the right thing for skydiving and skydivers.
PhreeZone 15
If you want to compare it to a major sporting event its more along the lines of not being allowed to display your teams flag in the parking lot since it was not from the Licensed apperal maker for that year. "Opps, your banner was made by Company C and we only allow Company XYZ to make out items now"
I can see how from the event sponsors/dropzone standpoint that this is a good idea. Why let someone get free advertising when you had just paid/billed a lot of money to be a sponsor of the event. From the other side teams that have sponsors usually are under obligation to promote their sponsors so this might make some teams miss Nationals or put them in conflict with their contracts which would be a very bad thing.
I'm not too worked up on this since it ifs a failure the entire competition community will talk about it after Nationals and it will never happen again.
I can see how from the event sponsors/dropzone standpoint that this is a good idea. Why let someone get free advertising when you had just paid/billed a lot of money to be a sponsor of the event. From the other side teams that have sponsors usually are under obligation to promote their sponsors so this might make some teams miss Nationals or put them in conflict with their contracts which would be a very bad thing.
I'm not too worked up on this since it ifs a failure the entire competition community will talk about it after Nationals and it will never happen again.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
I see you've made some comparisons to other aviation events, such as airshows or the Reno Air Races, but I think you're missing a key concept.
Those events are for-profit ventures, where all involved are there for the purpose of making money. The event is put on by a private enterprise with no relation to the performers aside from the contract they enter into with regards to that event.
The USPA Nationals is not a for-profit event, and is put on by a membership driven organization for the exclusive participation of the members. The entire purpose of the event is to serve the membership. The limitation of the membership with regards to what type of sponsorship they can employ is most certainly not serving the membership.
Let's keep in mind that no sponsor has ever shown up to Nationals and attempted to take over the event based on the fact that they have sponsored a team. The competitor related sponsorship exposure has always been reasonable and in check. This 'partnership protection' is not in place to reign in out of control sponsors.
I'm sure the DZ is going to do a nice job in hosting Nationals, but in this case they have completely missed the mark. If we increased the registration fee to $500, we could have a champagne banquet at the end of the event, why don't we do that?
Let's make it $1000, and we could book the Counting Crows to play at the banquest.
I could go on, but you get the point. If you can't run the show withtout cutting the competitors off at the knees, then you're trying to run the wrong show. If this is what Sapceland needs to make this happen, than Spaceland has gotten too big for National's britches.
I'm going to be interested to see just who these 'partners' are. I'm also going to be interested to see if these are skydiving-related companies, and I'd be really interested to know if these companies are aware of the impact that this arrangement is going to have on the competitors.
Those events are for-profit ventures, where all involved are there for the purpose of making money. The event is put on by a private enterprise with no relation to the performers aside from the contract they enter into with regards to that event.
The USPA Nationals is not a for-profit event, and is put on by a membership driven organization for the exclusive participation of the members. The entire purpose of the event is to serve the membership. The limitation of the membership with regards to what type of sponsorship they can employ is most certainly not serving the membership.
Let's keep in mind that no sponsor has ever shown up to Nationals and attempted to take over the event based on the fact that they have sponsored a team. The competitor related sponsorship exposure has always been reasonable and in check. This 'partnership protection' is not in place to reign in out of control sponsors.
I'm sure the DZ is going to do a nice job in hosting Nationals, but in this case they have completely missed the mark. If we increased the registration fee to $500, we could have a champagne banquet at the end of the event, why don't we do that?
Let's make it $1000, and we could book the Counting Crows to play at the banquest.
I could go on, but you get the point. If you can't run the show withtout cutting the competitors off at the knees, then you're trying to run the wrong show. If this is what Sapceland needs to make this happen, than Spaceland has gotten too big for National's britches.
I'm going to be interested to see just who these 'partners' are. I'm also going to be interested to see if these are skydiving-related companies, and I'd be really interested to know if these companies are aware of the impact that this arrangement is going to have on the competitors.
I don't see the issue here. All they are saying is if your sponsor didn't pay to be here they will not advertise here. Pretty simple and easy to understand. Why would anyone pay to sponsor an event if anyone could come in and advertise for free??
Last year at my event someone invited a food vendor. When they showed up they wanted to set up right next to the building we were in. Had I allowed it that would have been a pretty shitty thing to do to the Carbones. I had them set up in an area that was set aside for spectators.
If this is what Spaceland has to do to keep the sponsors that are helping to pay for this I see no problem. For those of you that do,you bid on nationals next time and lets see how you do with a free for all.
Last year at my event someone invited a food vendor. When they showed up they wanted to set up right next to the building we were in. Had I allowed it that would have been a pretty shitty thing to do to the Carbones. I had them set up in an area that was set aside for spectators.
If this is what Spaceland has to do to keep the sponsors that are helping to pay for this I see no problem. For those of you that do,you bid on nationals next time and lets see how you do with a free for all.
dqpacker 7
Quote
I'm going to be interested to see just who these 'partners' are. I'm also going to be interested to see if these are skydiving-related companies, and I'd be really interested to know if these companies are aware of the impact that this arrangement is going to have on the competitors.
http://www.uspanationals.com/partners.htm
You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!
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