scottjaco 0 #1 October 18, 2003 I just heard about the DC-9 Jet at Perris. I did a search and found out that people have been talking about this on Dropzone.com since January! Is there any new information about this plane? Why does it take so long to make it skydive friendly? Shit!... the thing is soo big...why not just let people sit in the seats just like regular passengers? What is the hold up? thanks, scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #2 October 18, 2003 I wanna jump it too---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skidyver11074 0 #3 October 18, 2003 We don't have the DC-9 yet in Perris. It's in progress and I'll try to get more info on this to post.Jill Scheidel Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #4 October 18, 2003 I know that the runway needs expanded to allow room for the jet. When I was there in May the one end of the runway was tillte more then a tar and graveled runway. The DC9 woill need a full concrete runway so untill you see the other end of the runway get removed and a new extended runway put in, I'd think the jet is like the WFFC one Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #5 October 18, 2003 QuoteI'd think the jet is like the WFFC one Like a contrail? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 99 #6 October 18, 2003 Shouldn't be a problem, maybe the air force base or some other runway nearby could serve as the loading base. It wouldn't be convenient, but it wouldn't be done very often anyway.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #7 October 18, 2003 Jillie bean, whatcha doing on DZ.com at 4 in the morning? 4am is early even for you :)I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
geronimo 1 #8 October 19, 2003 QuoteI just heard about the DC-9 Jet at Perris. Is there any new information about this plane? scott You can read the old stuff here: Airplane Performance Perris Airport Airplane Characteristics for Airport Planning DC 9 Family DC-9 Specs .--- I have a dream that my posts will one day will not be judged by the color of the fonts or settings in a Profile but by the content. Geronimo_AT_http://ParachuteHistory.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #9 October 19, 2003 Thanks for the specs! Wow, That must have taken a lot of balls for a Drop Zone to buy a jet for their jumpers. I'm impressed! .....and to think I was bitchin about the jump ticket prices. It will be well worth it to be the first drop zone in the world to own a jet of any type for skydivers. thanks, scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #10 October 19, 2003 Cool! Us skydivers are listed as an "attraction"!! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,822 #11 October 19, 2003 >Why does it take so long to make it skydive friendly? Well, for one thing, it needs new engines. That could take a while. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleBadger 0 #12 October 19, 2003 They ain't bought it yet, but they did buy a wind tunnel to keep us all excited till they do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #13 October 19, 2003 Quote The DC9 woill need a full concrete runway so untill you see the other end of the runway get removed and a new extended runway put in, I'd think the jet is like the WFFC one Well phree don't be suprised if this one becomes the WFFC one, since it will be owned by a dropzone. I doubt it will run on any given tuesday but I can see it making most of the big summer boogies. Don't worry about the runway, Perris also owns a whole bunch of earth moving equiptment. You should know this if you were surveying where not to land while under canopy back in may. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #14 October 20, 2003 OK, the runway shouldn't be too hard to extend..... Now I'm hearing that they haven't bought it yet? Are you sure? Everyone says they bought it like 8 months ago! Now they need new engines? that sounds like another big setback! Why would you buy a plane that needed new engines? You wouldn't buy a used car that needed a new engine? (unless it's a classic) could someone who knows planes explain the pros/cons of this purchase? thanks, scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #15 October 20, 2003 Not many jets have an airstair door like the 727 or DC-9. You're limited in choices. They don't make these planes anymore. A 727 takes more runway to takeoff and land on than a DC-9. A 727 also requires 3 crew members as opposed to 2 for a DC-9. Even if new planes were available to fit this roll the purchase price would be astronimically higher. I have just one thought about what someone commented earlier. They said something like "it will only be used occasionally for special events." In aviation, "expensive plane" and "not used a lot" don't cut it. I can see a lot of issues trying to make this plane even break even.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 99 #16 October 20, 2003 Don't you think Perris must have the runway length for it to take off empty? Doesn't seem wise to land at an airport that isn't long enough to allow a takeoff. You can read all those performance charts, is it allowed? Maybe Perris is really just a last resting place for this bird like Marana is for so many old jets. Sure would be a great way to get to all the Boogies! I used to say that Kapowsin got their Otter because their Porter just didn't hold enough stuff for their large family to travel comfortably. Maybe this is an exaggerated version of that.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #17 October 20, 2003 In aviation, "expensive plane" and "not used a lot" don't cut it. I can see a lot of issues trying to make this plane even break even. *** Yes, I agree....but what about the Skyvan at Perris? They only run it on weekends and then, only if it's a busy weekend. Normally they run 2 otters while the 3rd otter is being used some place else. The skyvan sits there and collects dust. If they got the dc 9 working....I would be up there every weekend. It would crush the competition. scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 99 #18 October 20, 2003 QuoteIf they got the dc 9 working....I would be up there every weekend. It would crush the competition. It would be fun for the novelty of jumping a jet, but it wouldn't really be a good everday jump plane because you can't get many out the narrow door quickly and it fast speed would make for a lot of out landings. But, like I said, jet jumps would be popular at big boogies, and what better way to get there and take a few dozen friends?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #19 October 20, 2003 Agreed. I would love the chance to jump from a jet but after a few jumps the novelty would wear off pretty quickly. While I do love CASA's and Skyvan's, I still prefer to do RW and freefly from Otters. There's just something about that door I like for setting up exits.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #20 October 20, 2003 Skyvans are pretty mainentence intensive planes compared to Otters. And a Skyvan is only a fraction of the price of a DC9. There is a reason that the WFFC had leased a jet for a lot of years. The purchase cost, maintence, and now the biggest killer insurance was EXPENSIVE. I have no idea the actual cost of the stuff but I know it was large. The only boogies that have the facilities to support a DC9 are WFFC and Richmond. Considering the C130 did'nt return to Richmond I don't think the summer boogie circuit has quite the draw that it did only a few years ago. Even the DC-3 and Beech 18 flew only a few loads a day at WFFC this year and they did'nt have NEAR the min per load number you'd need for a DC9 to fly jumpers. A Jet jump is a novelity jump, after 2 or 3 jumps from novelity aircraft they usually lose their appeal (I'm still waiting for my Jet jump) and then the aircraft are not used that frequently again till a new generation of jumpers are seeking out a new novelity (like jumpers are looking at a DC-3 as a novelity anymore ) for their logbooks. Unless the plane is going to be used for cargo also I can't believe that it would break even on flying jumpers.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #21 October 20, 2003 I suppose you are right about people having trouble with the large group exits! The doorway is pretty small! I don't think that people would get sick of it though. 1) The plane can probably make it to altitude in half the time of an otter or skyvan. 2) You can expect better altitude like say 14K. The same way you get a little extra altitude out of a King Air. scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #22 October 20, 2003 Spending 2x (or more) the normal jump ticket price for a faster ride and *possibly* a bit better altitude wouldn't grab me. For anything bigger than a 4-way you'd eat up the extra altitude just trying to get the base together and flying the distance to the formation due to the much higher exit speed. Now...taking my new Bird-Man GTi out of it would be quite the fun time as I would like to see if I could get over the top of the jet on exit.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #23 October 20, 2003 13.5-14k is standard in the Midwest almost everywhere with a turbine I've done my Pitts jump, I really don't want to do another. I've jumped the C130, and at the price I really see no need to do another. Only things I want to jump yet are the B17/B24 and the 727 (I want a DB Cooper number ) Don't count on a faster climb rate. Sure it will get up top in only 5 minutes or so, but it will take a lot longer then that to be lined up on jump run. The 727 at WFFC I guess was taking 12-14 minutes to take off, circle around and do jump run #1, it would then do a go around and increase its speed for jump run #2. Thats a long wait for Jump run #2. Large exits a problem? 2 way linked exits are an issue on a Jet pass. There is video on the net of grippers getting ripped off of a 2 way that tried to launch a linked piece out of the 727. Jets are worthless for Tandems or AFF. Do you have 60-75 people standing around all day that are willing to make 5-6 loads where building speed stars is about the largest thing they can do? Thats what it takes to operate a jet full time. Think of the door as being a King Air that are no floaters allowed on it, and jump speed is increased. I'm not saying its impossible, but there are going to be alot of issues keeping a Jet full time for jumpers.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #24 October 20, 2003 QuoteAnd a Skyvan is only a fraction of the price of a DC9. Actually, I think you'll find that given the number of jets parked in the desert right now, you can pick up a jet VERY cheaply. The numbers I heard were around 300,000 for a jet without a lot of hours left on it. Granted this isn't exactly cheap, but if you can keep your maintenance down (read: don't use it much) I can imagine that it's possible to break even. This is certainly the time to buy with so many jets rusting in the desert. It'd be smart for a DZ to buy now in cash, sit on it until the industry picks up, which conceivably could be next year, and the run then boogie circuit. I think with the big old planes, it's not as crutial that they run continuously. For example, Otters run less then Caravans. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,822 #25 October 20, 2003 >1) The plane can probably make it to altitude in half the time of an otter or skyvan. Only an issue if a DZO is expecting to be able to put, say, 30 loads out of it a day. At any place other than the WFFC, it's very, very hard to get 100 people per load to turn that fast. Especially when you can't use it for AFF, static line, big ways or 4-way team practice. >2) You can expect better altitude like say 14K. The same way you get a > little extra altitude out of a King Air. At Perris, altitude is not really limited by aircraft performance. Many times we'll get to 12.5 and the otter will level off and fly for 2-3 minutes lining up for jump run. No reason to expect the jet would not do the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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