Drop in the number of Skydivers

Yah . . . by the time I get good enough, there should be a 1000-way record in the making . . .

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Yes, it is a bad thing.

Go to any popular ski resort and see what going main stream has done for them. The operators make more money and the skiers wait in line. Growth for the sake of growth usually screws up a good thing.

(Bear with me, folks. I had a long convo with a much more-experienced skydiver about this topic the other day, and I have a lot to say on the matter. Apologies for being wordy - I was an English major ).


Growth is most-definitely a double-edged sword.

Seriously. As mjosparky correctly pointed out, with growth comes growing pains. And if we want growth in the sport, we have to accept that, and prepare for it.

That being said, I think that the benefits of growing our sport far outweigh the detriments. I'll take the advantages of having more people interested and doing more things in the air over the disadvantages of shrinking membership, less gear suppliers, etc. So what is the overall problem, then?

I haven't been around long enough to speak for the baby boomers getting out of the sport, so I'll file that under 'possibility'. I know that cost is a HUGE barrier to entry for most people, myself included. Ms. A (above) & I both paid about the same amount to get our A license. And now we're looking at acquiring & renting gear, etc...in addition to the regular tickets to 12,500'. It scares a lot of people away...if they get far enough into the sport to consider doing it regularly. Back to the thoughts of what happened with skiing and snowboarding going mainstream, think how much cheaper it is to pay for a day on the mountain and renting a pair of skis than it is to do, say, an AFF-Level 7. You can buy a snowboard for less than you pay for 2 AFF jumps.

So cost is most definitely a factor in people continuing on after doing their first tandem. But I don't think that's the full problem. I think the full problem comes even before that: it's the problem of public mindset.

People don't know what the possibilities of skydiving are. I hate to say it, but it seems to me it's gone out of the social consciousness as a 'cool' sport that anyone can do (& that pushes the envelope enough to attract the teenagers & mid-twenties types).

Think of it - how many people do you know who find out you're a skydiver who say, "Oh, cool! I've always wanted to do that!", but never have? I myself was one of those who said I was gonna do it when I was 18...and just didn't get around to it until I was 27. Why? Who knows? It wasn't enough of a thing to do. It wasn't a high enough priority for me. It sounded cool...but I had no idea of what I'd be getting myself into, and thus I had no imperative to go out and do it.

People in the advertising industry say you have to see a logo at least 4-5 times before you really remember it. Hence the reason a company puts up 30 billboards, instead of just 1. Now, applying the same logic to our sport: how often does skydiving make it into the popular media?

Back to skiing & snowboarding, let's hear it for the Winter X-Games!! They've done a HUGE thing for snowboarding (which is gaining more people snowboarding than skiing is these days...and I think that's mostly due to young people wanting to do what's the current "cool" thing. Hell, I've never even lived near snow, and I've snowboarded). We now have snowboarding 'stars' like Shaun White giving interviews on the network news. It's at the forefront of the public mind. By comparison, how many times have you seen skydiving on ESPN lately (besides a fatality report)? How many feature news stories are done on our sport anymore?

I think the key to increasing the number of people who want to jump out of airplanes is to put it in their face and make it 'cool' again. Which presents another big problem: the fact that no matter how rad it is to us when we see a freefly team working some serious magic...to those who haven't skydived, there's no real concept. They can't see it up close - only via camera. Which really kinda deflates the whole proposition (not saying it isn't rad as hell now when I see a great skydiving video - just saying that when I used to watch skysurfing on the X-Games, I had no idea how difficult the things that were being done were. Watching skateboarding, on the other hand, I could understand a bit more: you could see how high they were off the ramp when they threw their 720's). Our sport is not really one for spectators.

...or is it?

Okay, I know I'm horribly long-winded, but here's the ultimate conclusion we reached in our discussion of this the other day: Swooping may be the way to get people back in the door.

It's really the only way that someone can watch one of the more exciting disciplines of skydiving live & in-person. Which gives the possibility of network TV coverage, spectators, fans...all of which translates into higher awareness from the public.

(And the kids think it's pretty wicked).

Granted, the idea of swooping scares the sh** out of me at this point in my skydiving experience...and we don't want to encourage hot-headed people to get into skydiving who might downsize far too rapidly & injure themselves (& others)...but that's always the risk with a sport like skydiving. And hopefully good training will help them respect a little better how unforgiving the sport can be. (Not to mention that once people start to experience all the things you can do in freefall, they often get sidetracked. See my above comment about my not knowing what I was getting myself into).

However we do it, point is, I think we need to find ways to bring our sport back into the public eye (besides raising the amount of fatalities each year). And I think right now pond-swooping is the best-positioned skydiving discipline to get people to turn their heads and take notice.

Again, apologies for the longwinded-ness...but I think this is a serious question for the future of our sport, and it deserves some serious thought.

Zig Zag....I don't think goose was bagging on you.

Goose...Well said. I'll put it this way. There is a guy on here that sends me a PM about once a week. He is friendly and wants to learn. So when I am at the DZ who do you think I go look for to help? Him, or they guy that has never said "hi" to me?

Simple fact is if I don't know you, and you make no effort to let me know who you are, and there are loads of people, how the heck am I supposed to know you want help?

If you don't make yourself noticable, I will not notice you.

Wallflowers don't get to dance.

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Good Gawd! $3000 to get to an A-License!!

I'm glad I came up a long time ago when it was about $1200 for me to get off of student-status and my fir... err... initial rig only cost me $3000 for a new container, new main, new reserve... AADs weren't all the rage then...

Ms.A, you may want to run the numbers on some other SoCal DZ's, I'd be interested to know if they're all that expensive.

To clarify, I think Ms. A was including all the costs of getting to an A license...which, in this day and age, means the cost of AFF levels 1-7, plus jump tickets & coaching fees (when you choose to jump with a coach - which, I've gotta say, is ultimately a good thing, because you can only do so many 'no-pressure' jumps as a student by yourself before it gets kinda boring) & gear rental for the jumps after AFF. Not to mention it now goes to 25 jumps before the 'A', as opposed to the former 20. If you're paying for gear and a coach, that's an extra $500 right there.

I checked at the DZ's around the Los Angeles area, and an AFF approach to the 'A' license, including AFF jumps, student jumps, coaching (when you want it), & gear rental all seems to run about the same price.

And then you have to start looking for your own rig...

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Okay, I know I'm horribly long-winded, but here's the ultimate conclusion we reached in our discussion of this the other day: Swooping may be the way to get people back in the door.

I might be biased, but alot of other skydivers i have spoken to agree to this statement.

someone work some things and get us some TV time!!!

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However we do it, point is, I think we need to find ways to bring our sport back into the public eye (besides raising the amount of fatalities each year). And I think right now pond-swooping is the best-positioned skydiving discipline to get people to turn their heads and take notice.

so, we hold nationals this year at a "PUBLIC" venue, yet it is so damn expensive, most of the "top" swoopers", are not going because of the price.

we spend so much of our time and money to be competitive, travel and what not all year, we tear our gear up annually, and sponsorships are running thinner.

so we see that swooping might be a good thing for this sport, so we put it the "NATIONAL" comp. in the public eye, but it cost so much, alot of us are not going. it sucks..

it isn't a selection year for the world team, so where is the motivation for us to go.? ya ya ya we could get "time in the public eye". but that is at a cost so extreme to the jumper.

to be a swooper, takes lots and lots of money.

thanks for the PST, they give us the drive to compete for the "chance" to make some of that money back.

ok im done, and i probably was very random. but im just venting.

You're right... the "back in the day" solution of transitioning from a student to an up-jumper may not have been the best since you kinda had to muddle through until you racked up a number of jumps before people would jump with you, along the way, maybe you got bored and/or developed bad RW habbits... as opposed to today's solution of being able to get coaching, but then having to shell out extra bucks... they both have their pros and cons... nothing is free.

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so we see that swooping might be a good thing for this sport, so we put it the "NATIONAL" comp. in the public eye, but it cost so much, alot of us are not going. it sucks..

it isn't a selection year for the world team, so where is the motivation for us to go.? ya ya ya we could get "time in the public eye". but that is at a cost so extreme to the jumper.

to be a swooper, takes lots and lots of money.

thanks for the PST, they give us the drive to compete for the "chance" to make some of that money back.

ok im done, and i probably was very random. but im just venting.

Of course, to be a skydiver in general takes lots and lots of money (says the guy who just paid a bit over $3000 to get his A license, and now needs gear...and $ for food). But having to travel obviously adds onto cost for swoopers...and as you said, a public venue is expensive, esp. with less sponsors. But I think it's up to us to build it...then the sponsors will come. (Sponsors are always ambulance-chasers...gotta face it).

One question - what does the USPA do as far as Public Relations go?

My only experience with the organization as a whole is that of reading the SIM manual & sending off my license app...so I really have no idea. But it seems like actively promoting the sport would fall under their umbrella.

Going to the USPA website, however, & looking through the directory, I can't tell who's in charge of handling public awareness of skydiving. The nearest categories would be 'Marketing' and 'Media Inquiries'...but as we've pointed out, the media isn't going to come to us. We need to be taking it to their front door.

I'm just curious if there isn't some way to organize the USPA membership into better knocking on doors, getting it in the face of the media. And shouldn't the USPA have a full-time PR person who's out shaking down trees? Seems a logical expense to me... (and maybe they do - I just can't find anyone listed on the website, who a member might contact to discuss ways to get involved and get it out there).

Anyone know how the USPA works on this front?

If the USPA could secure some media attention, I don't think you'd need to shell out the bucks for the swooping Nationals. I mean, the only place I ever hear about Nationals is in skydiving publications. Do we advertise these events to the non-skydiving public? I get the sense that if we start to get some of the general public there (and get media attention), I would think that more people would come the next time around, provided we keep it interesting...

Oh, one other little PR thing: We need a 'Flying Tomato' of skydiving. We could really use a poster-boy/girl, who'll make the sport seem more human. Any takers?

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You're right... the "back in the day" solution of transitioning from a student to an up-jumper may not have been the best since you kinda had to muddle through until you racked up a number of jumps before people would jump with you, along the way, maybe you got bored and/or developed bad RW habbits... as opposed to today's solution of being able to get coaching, but then having to shell out extra bucks... they both have their pros and cons... nothing is free.

Too true. And to be honest, I look at all the money spent as a necessary evil.

On my 27th jump, another new jumper (32 jumps) & I managed to dock with at around 8000' after exiting about 3 seconds apart. I'm told that's pretty good (but I have no point of reference. Seems like a relatively simple thing). But lord knows, without the coaching we'd received, I don't know that either of us would have been able to get anywhere near that, at that point.

So while the cost barrier to entry is pretty crazy...on the flipside, if what people are telling me is true, it does seem like it'll ultimately help me out in the long run.

Hi all, ive never posted before, but I thought I’d offer myself up as a case study on this topic. I did a tandem at the end of June and absolutely fell in love. Went back the next week and took the SL course, and had even more fun, and hope to do a few more jumps before the end of summer But now im stuck, I get about one weekend a month off( I’m a med student, so tweaking the schedule is almost impossible), and this seems to be a weekend only sport around here. I cant imagine spending the amount of money to maybe jump once a month if the weathers good. My jumps so far has been off loans,(don’t tell the federales) Also, this seems like a skill to commit to, being barley current seems like a good way to up the likelihood of a bounce. Anyway, hopefully ill be back in a few years, Till then I remain a jealous Whuffo
Blue skies
Pete

Firstly, in regards to Lloyd's email...Of the people who are world/national class swoopers, how long did it take you to get there? We're going to have people who are going to think they can come into the sport, do a few student jumps, and then want to start land with the wind so they can get a good swoop. Will profiling swooping in the national, public media get more people interested in skydiving? Absolutely! But do we really want the people who see that and want a QUICK thrill in our sport? Probably not. Although it would help the fatality rate, which would also get more people involved. But I really don't want to have to continually reassure my family and friends that yes, someone died this weekend and then go over the list of mistakes which that jumper made.

ZigZag--no, we don't need to pay for coaching jumps, but as long as the high jumpers demand that they get paid, then yes, we'll have to pay for coaching jumps. That was just my point--if more high jumpers gave their time, experience, and knowledge to those jumpers who are obviously going to stick around, we'd have more, experience, qualified low jump numbers, willing to PAY IT FORWARD when the time comes. Henceforth, continueing our sport with qualified, experience jumpers, and not just people looking for a quick thrill with a life ending "cool" swoop!

Quick note...Lloyd Dobbler--awesome username, great username, if only every guy was a Lloyd Dobbler!

Maybe there are people who would rather be- or more able to afford to be- parachutists than skydivers. For instance, I know that unless I hit the Power Ball I'll never be able to afford much more than 60 or 70 skydives a year, a number I know wont ever lead me to be attain great skydiving skills- but maybe in time I'll be a decent accuracy pilot, and maybe that alone will be enough to keep me in the game.

The industry doesn't cater to that scenario at this time, but I think there's business being lost by focusing exclusively on marketing to the public the thrill of freefall and the extreme nature of the sport. Most people would NOT engage in extreme sports or activities, so why is it that the industry portrays itself as such? Freefall, CRW, swooping etc. is extreme, no question, but canopy flight (sans hook turns and collisions of course) can be a peaceful, pleasant experience that doesn't -have- to start with going to 13.5 and falling for 60 seconds every time.

When I was a kid and skateboards first came out, I would spend hours just running a slalom of pine cones on a quiet street. A deacde or so later, SOME kids (with much better boards) were building ramps and getting extreme and doing all sorts of stunts, but the other side of it is that for the most part the majority of skateboarders to this day are pretty much content to do the equivalent of running a slalom of pine cones in the street, just as most BMX bike riders dont practice stunts, they just ride around their neigborhoods.

If there is a real problem with retention (is it true the average skydiver is in the sport for an average of three years?) maybe the industry would benefit from rethinking its marketing strategy, and adjust its operations accordingly.

It's a big sky, it might make sense to be more inclusive. Just a thought.

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could always see if you could borrow gear from a friend that would be jumping similar things to what you are now..

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and the SIM was $30

I dont see why people buy these.. you can d/l it for free

And the cost of ink and paper to print it is?