mikeat10500 12 #26 April 24, 2003 Ron I would like to see the DZO's enforcing there own regulations before it comes to FAA regulations. On my DZ you can go buy what ever you want somewhere else but the DZO is not going to let you jump it here unless it is ok with him. The blood would spill on his DZ. ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 12 #27 April 24, 2003 QuoteI heard if you load them over 7.7:1 they may spontaneously ignite during agressive turns. That is why you must start the turn low...so the fire and smoke is still rolling off when you blister through the blades!!!----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #28 April 24, 2003 That's why you only do CReW when loading that high, if you do simple stacks together, then you probably won't turn aggressively enough to ignite the canopies. Besure to go bare foot, though, since the lines will cut your shoes to shreds...and you don't want to loose a shoe doing CReW or distroy one...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,822 #29 April 24, 2003 >I would like to see the DZO's enforcing there own >regulations before it comes to FAA regulations. Me too, but it seems like people scream bloody murder when DZO's actually do that (aka Kansas.) A lot of people believe simultaneously that most people shouldn't be jumping a 2 to 1 at 200 jumps - but that they can pull it off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #30 April 24, 2003 The sad thing is his "BUDDY" let him jump his 107 Stiletto. With friends like that who needs enemies. Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 12 #31 April 24, 2003 Dave You gadda admit...few things are as exciting as naked CRW in micro lines. ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #32 April 24, 2003 Ray used to jump at my home DZ. He was the best low time canopy pilot around. It didn't matter that when he'd try to swoop the pond the landed in it. It didn't matter that he didn't know didly squat about his canopy. We were constantly telling him he was going to injure himself or worse. After he broke is back and was told he'd never walk again someone asked him what we could have said different that would have caused him to hear what we were trying to communicate. He said, "nothing." Too bad he doesn't come around anymore. I have a new hot shot to introduce him to.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betzilla 56 #33 April 24, 2003 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Has anyone explained to him exactly what a Sabre150 let alone Stilletto 97/107 will do to him the very moment he makes a mistake low to the ground -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tried that. But he's so good he'll never make a mistake... They don't think about that because their main concern is being cool. Being cool doesn't include breaking a femur, but it DOES include jumping a small fast canopy and getting long surfs. They want that as soon as possible. I had a guy look me right in they eye and say, "getting hurt doesn't scare me. I race motorcycles. I just get up and do it again after I get hurt." But when he was told that he will learn high performance landings faster under a reasonably sized canopy, he seemed to catch on. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but we have to find a way to get through to these guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #34 April 24, 2003 Eitherway, I bet I could outswoop him under a Sabre2 190 (loaded about 1.4), compared to his 1.9 Stilleto. Someone needs to swoop the shit out of a big canopy infront of him and tell this guy he doesn't know shit yet.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #35 April 24, 2003 Quote Thirty five jumps.... ...Wants a Stiletto 107 or 97. I say you make an example out of him. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #36 April 24, 2003 That was BEFORE they implemented the nylon/titanitum additive process that protects the canpoy from high levels of friction. They are now working on the "anyone can fly this canopy no matter how many jumps bounce proof suit" to be able to begin marketing to students with at least five jumps... "You wanna hook it in, go right ahead. Now you don't have to worry about that bothersome vertabrate break or that nagging life-long limp. Forget being a walking barometer!!!" -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #37 April 24, 2003 Quote >I would like to see the DZO's enforcing there own >regulations before it comes to FAA regulations. Me too, but it seems like people scream bloody murder when DZO's actually do that (aka Kansas.) I guess you can put me in the "bloddy murder' catagory on that one. I am all for DZO's enforcing regulations, IF they are reasonable. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #38 April 24, 2003 There's a LARGE difference in inforcing proper wingloadings per jumper or groups of jumpers and laying out a blanket rule that screws others.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #39 April 24, 2003 Quote On my DZ you can go buy what ever you want somewhere else but the DZO is not going to let you jump it here unless it is ok with him. I haven't been to a lot of dz's but I've never seen a DZO inspect the size of someone's canopy before they get on the plane. If this guy goes from a 150 to a 97 with 40 jumps, he might not have a chance for a second jump. Quote I say you make an example out of him. There have been enough examples, it seems people ignore them. Far be it from me to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't jump...I'm mr newbie...but damn, that's just plain crazy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #40 April 24, 2003 "Far be it from me to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't jump...I'm mr newbie...but damn, that's just plain crazy..." Not in the least actually. I personally have two friends that would still be with us today if they hadn't been in such a hurry to downsize and had listened to the advice MANY people were giving them. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #41 April 24, 2003 >I would like to see the DZO's enforcing there own >regulations before it comes to FAA regulations. Me too, but it seems like people scream bloody murder when DZO's actually do that (aka Kansas.) I guess you can put me in the "bloddy murder' catagory on that one. I am all for DZO's enforcing regulations, IF they are reasonable. QuoteThe problem is who decides what is "reasonable"? The DZO? What if he thinks that 1.4 is the max? You? Me? The student with 30 jumps that wants to copy you and have a 2 to 1? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #42 April 24, 2003 QuoteThey don't think about that because their main concern is being cool. Being cool doesn't include breaking a femur, but it DOES include jumping a small fast canopy and getting long surfs. They want that as soon as possible. And I think you have hit the nail on the head. I think most new jumpers understand the risks, they simply consider the rewards (or perceived rewards, fitting in, looking cool, etc), worth the risk. They are willing to take the chance, go for glory. Some don't see the amount of risk. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misterhand 0 #43 April 24, 2003 will somebody please, PLEASE slap this guy silly? don't we self-police? won't someone tell him flatly "no you aint flying that shit while we're around"? obviously you cant take his canopy away but since he's determined to be THAT much of a threat, couldnt we come up with like a community police action protocol for this? people at the dz saying "well we cant stop you from buying it of trying it but none of us will get in a plane with you like that" thus effectively grounding him? we cant stop him from getting in the plane but everyone else can refuse to do so. no load=no nutcase crater. how many fatalities does it take before people will do whatever it takes to save these guys from themselves so they live long enough to earn the skills?? how the hell does someone that oblivious survive his student status in the first place? somebody DO something! -155 lbs exit weight, happily unharmed under a sabre 190 and lovin' it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #44 April 24, 2003 I am so totally uncool... I have a 1.2 to 1 wing loading..... And a D license someone called a social security D last weekend... waaaa Amazon D-4888 Older and wiser and still a dancin ...oh and jumping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #45 April 24, 2003 QuoteThe problem is who decides what is "reasonable"? The DZO? What if he thinks that 1.4 is the max? You? Me? The student with 30 jumps that wants to copy you and have a 2 to 1? If the DZO is incapable of determining what is reasonable, then all is lost, for they can make and enforce any rules they wish. Most Instructors can watch someone fly a canopy and determine what a reasonable wing loading the person should be under. There are rough guides, i.e. 100 jumps 1.1, 200 jumps 1.2, etc. I have a high wing loading (3.1:1) and have never failed to stand up the landing and have never been injured, so that makes 3.1:1 not un-reasonable, for some pilots. It can be done safely. I regularly make wing loading judgements with newer jumpers. It isn't all that difficult. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #46 April 24, 2003 Lisa, Principals and integrity. I like it! You can cover my 6 anytime. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quincy 0 #47 April 24, 2003 QuoteTell the guy ya need a note from his insurance man prior to shipment Better yet, since it's his life (albeit for not much longer) tell him you'll be glad to ship it right after he sends you the write up for how he wants his Darwin Awards listing to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #48 April 24, 2003 QuoteMost Instructors can watch someone fly a canopy and determine what a reasonable wing loading the person should be under. I don't agrre with this....SOME may, but there are A LOT of small DZ's that don't have swoop knowledge....Although I will grant you that the big ego + little exp + small canopy thing probley happens more at a larger more progressive DZ. I like the 100 jumps 1.1, 200 1.2 thing VERY much...In fact I wish USPA would adopt it. You can always get a small cool canopy later if you live jumping the one you have now! Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #49 April 24, 2003 I wonder if it's the same guy i'm thinking of from the dz. I've treid my best to talk to him about stuff, but he doesn't seem to listen. He's big time bounce bait. He's decided his hard deck is 1000ft. I've talked to him about raising it incase he has a spinning mal that is hard to cutaway. His response was "i'll just cut through the risers with my hook knife." No matter what you say to him, he just doesn't listen. The sad part is i overheard him giving advice to another newbie. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,822 #50 April 24, 2003 >If the DZO is incapable of determining what is reasonable, then all >is lost, for they can make and enforce any rules they wish. Unfortunately, not everyone has the experience to do that. A SL JM cannot easily determine how dangerous it is for an AFF JM to dock on a recently graduated student if he has absolutely no experience with AFF. The DZ may have a policy that prohibits me, for example, from jumping with a newly graduated student who has just developed a problem at pull time. "But he'll be SAFER in the air with me there!" I could explain. "I got trained to dock on unstable students and make sure they pull; heck, I've done it a few hundred times!" Still, if he doesn't know anything about me or AFF, he'd be foolish to allow me to break one of their rules. The canopy thing may be no different. If a DZO jumps a Challenger because demos are his thing, and all his SL JM's have under 500 jumps and largish canopies, they may well not have the observational skills to tell an expert swooper to someone who simply survives landing under their Stiletto 120. If that's the case, sticking to their guns may save lives, which is their stated objective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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