Performance Designs Bad Attitude

"Flock of Seagulls" apparently "landed" in Tampa.....which is in Florida,
by no small coincidence PD is also in Florida, coincidence? I think not.

If you approached them with this attitude, no wonder you're having trouble.

I just got an email back from Kim within a day about a demo request. She had some questions for me which were completely fair to ask. She's obviously doing the right thing by not just sending out any demo request to anyone.

Demos are a privelage, not a right.

PD is awesome.

Kim, Kolla, Justin, and everyone else there, thank you for doing a great job.

peace
lew

I have no idea what you are basing your frame of reference on concerning the statement "nobody likes PD" as that is possibly the farthest thing from the truth I can imagine. PD is a first-rate organization with the absolute industry standard demo program. Nobody, and I mean nobody maintains a demo fleet as large as theirs. They take great care in making sure the customer is satisfied while at the same time making sure that unqualified people don't get their hands on too high performance a canopy.

Sorry you had an other than perfect interaction with them, but I can assure you that you are in the smallest minority.

Chuck

True, but they could at least tell him they won't deal with him because they feel he's an accident waiting to happen. If that's the reason of course.

btw, PD has been great any time I've delt with them.

Thanks for pointing out Justin's post. I missed it some how

PD has always been great to me also! From relines, patches, demos they have gone out of there way to help me even when I was originally in the wrong about a reline issue. (I said only 200 jumps since a reline. They said no way, but we'll give you a discount. I looked at my logbook and they were right. When I admitted it to them, they said thanks and you still get the discount!) Great folks trying to do a good job for all of us.

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I believe they did keep him notified

Like most of you, I've had PD do nothing but bend over backwards to keep my wife and I happy.

They have never given me a reason to say 1 bad thing to say about them.

So how motivated will they be now?!

I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience with PD. I do wonder what you were asking to demo, and wonder if that had something to do with the poor responses (as others have pointed out). PD has been nothing but incredibly wonderful every time I've asked to demo a canopy, or buy a stock canopy, or anything else. I've never had a bad experience with them. They've been fair, asking relevent questions making sure I know what I'm good with what I'm demoing, and I've never had a bad experience with them. I think they're wonderful, and definitly don't believe that "no one likes them". I do, they're awesome! I'm glad they're around!

CReW Skies,

PD have always been on the ball also. the only problem i have ever encounted is when i bought 2 canopies off them they didn't send me my free T-shirt.. Cheap Bastards!! On another note, i know the guy shimel is talking about and thumbs up to them for not letting the guy demo a vengence. Just over 100 jumps and he was trying to get a demo. Its not all about money. Maybe you should look at getting a larger demo. To many dickheads jumping canopies too small for them. If PD won't send you a demo its because of a good reason not because of poor or bad attitude

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They are the biggest dealer with the worst record of satisfaction.

There is nothing wrong with feeling this way. It seems there are a lot of smart asses that think they know your situation better than you do.

Customer service is important. Statements about the skydiving industry not being like McDonalds or PD refusing to run their demo program like a mail order program are in fact part of the problem.

We are all grown adults and capable of making our own decisions on what we choose to fly. The people at PD don't know anything about you and shouldn't be in the business of "rating" skydivers abilities.

What is the point of checking references for a demo anyway? Anyone can use "fake" references and if someone bounces, PD could get sued because they didn't check the references properly.

It's opening a can of worms that could be totally avoided if they would just treat skydivers like adults
and have a general waiver of liability, just like the one you sign at the DZ.

I love PD. They've always been awesome to me.

Hey, just realized it was you bink. How you doin?

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There is nothing wrong with feeling this way. It seems there are a lot of smart asses that think they know your situation better than you do.

Customer service is important. Statements about the skydiving industry not being like McDonalds or PD refusing to run their demo program like a mail order program are in fact part of the problem.

We are all grown adults and capable of making our own decisions on what we choose to fly. The people at PD don't know anything about you and shouldn't be in the business of "rating" skydivers abilities.

What is the point of checking references for a demo anyway? Anyone can use "fake" references and if someone bounces, PD could get sued because they didn't check the references properly.

It's opening a can of worms that could be totally avoided if they would just treat skydivers like adults
and have a general waiver of liability, just like the one you sign at the DZ.

You can't honestly believe that.

No, wait, the scary part is that you probably do.

People can be treated like adults when they start acting like adults. Sadly, in this sport there are those who don't. Somebody can claim they're ready all day long but do you really think it's wise for someone to get their hands on an elliptical at less than 100 jumps?

On a canopy wingloaded, say, 1.8:1, at less than 100 jumps? (There's a nice post in the Incident's forum about this one)

People who make those choices not only endanger themselves, but the people they share the sky with.

Ya know, PD couldn't possibly get better advertising than this thread. I swear the original poster is Kolla in disguise!

Dave

By your rationalization then, when a jumper with say 60 or a 100 jumps calls to demo a cross brace canopy, that PD should just ship it out and say: "Have fun! & Be careful!"

Those calls DO happen, alarmingly more than you may think.

And no, we are not all capable of choosing what we fly. It is impossible for most jumpers to make truly informed decisions about canopy choices because unless you either A) made the canopy or B) have jumped it alot (and have the skill to assess its characteristics), then no, you cannot safely choose solely for yourself, because you simply do not know what the canopy is capable of at each wingloading. PD, Icarus, Atair, Precision, they MAKE the canopies, they know the canopy characteristics way better than you do, better than I do. In order to make truly informed decisons (translate that as SAFE DECISIONS) we need their input, it only increases everyones safety. Read my sig line twice please.............

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There is nothing wrong with feeling this way. It seems there are a lot of smart asses that think they know your situation better than you do.

If his profile is correct: 400 jumps and 2 years in the sport, and loading an elliptical at 1.63, then I would say that yes, there are likely a few people in these forums with more experience under their belts that might just have seen his "situation" before.

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Customer service is important. Statements about the skydiving industry not being like McDonalds or PD refusing to run their demo program like a mail order program are in fact part of the problem.

Agreed on the first comment - customer service is extremely important. My personal experience with PD, both for my own personal gear and for military equipment I deal with, has been excellent. They have made mistakes - those mistakes were dealt with professionally and responsibly.

As to the second comment - skydivers are an opinionated bunch . . . if you throw an opinion out here in a public forum, you are almost guaranteed to get feedback (not all of which you might agree with).

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We are all grown adults and capable of making our own decisions on what we choose to fly.

Quite frankly, that attitude can kill people. Can you imagine one of my AFF graduates coming to me for advice on buying their first canopy because they trust me as a professional, and I told them "your grown - you can make that decision yourself." The Incidents Forum and the USPA Fatality Summary are full of details surrounding the death of skydivers that made poor (sometimes uninformed) canopy choices.

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The people at PD don't know anything about you and shouldn't be in the business of "rating" skydivers abilities.

I can close my eyes and see the faces of my dead skydiving friends. So can many of the folks at PD that have been in the sport and in the industry for a while. I know the senior leadership of that company personally, and I can vouch for the fact that they are very careful about making decisions that forward the sport, not destroy it. None of us want to lose any more friends.

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It's opening a can of worms that could be totally avoided if they would just treat skydivers like adults and have a general waiver of liability, just like the one you sign at the DZ.

If I am driving my car through a neighborhood full of children at play, and I run over a kid who chased a ball into the street, it may not be my fault in the eyes of the law, but I am still responsible for his death. No piece of paper can relieve me of that.

If I loan a small high-performance canopy to a low experience jumper who loads it well above 1:1 and augers himself in, am I responsible? Or can I just say "he was grown, he made his decision" and walk away?

So what canopy are you wanting to demo? I see a lot of replies here, all in support of PD, and you've said NOTHING to back up your opinion or your story of "bad business". Perhaps the voice of experience has shut you up, or maybe you're just too afraid to post what you wanted in fear that you might become the laughing stock of the internet for a day? Either way, I'm not impressed.

You came out in public to bash a company for not giving you what you want, and when questioned of further details, you won't even back up your story. If you want to convince people publicly that PD sucks, then back up your claim with facts. If you have none and are just bitter because they're too smart to hand you a Velocity, then admit you were wrong and apologize before people really start thinking poorly of you for willfully and purposefully slandering a reputable company and a valuable asset to our skydiving community.

Oh, and by the way, I've had nothing but wonderful experience with PD. Add one more check to the score of supporters here.

Hey, the original post was only six-and-a-half hours ago. Cut the guy some slack - he could be asleep, watching baseball, down the pub, or watching baseball down the pub .

If he doesn't respond for two or three days, then your post might be justified. As it is, the tone of it just reduces the chances of the guy posting here to clarify his side of the story.

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They have made mistakes - those mistakes were dealt with professionally and responsibly.

That, to me, is the hallmark of a good company.

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By your rationalization then, when a jumper with say 60 or a 100 jumps calls to demo a cross brace canopy, that PD should just ship it out and say: "Have fun! & Be careful!"


This does happen, believe it or not.

We don't try and think for people, but the fact is, we can recognize a potentially bad situation.

The reason I work for PD is because, at PD we are not about selling canopies at any cost, or if it's not the right choice for the person. We don't try and push it on them. We would rather sell 1 canopy to someone who is perfectly matched for it than 10 canopies to people that it might not be there best choice.

Unfortunately, not everyone is a canopy expert, sometimes people request canopies that are not right for them. The questions we ask are to make sure it's the right canopy for you, so that you don't end up with a canopy your not 100% happy with. If someone says to me I'm jumping x canopy, and I want to try y canopy and after I talk to them for a bit and find out they would probably be happier with z canopy, don't you think I should suggest it?

I will not give someone a canopy that I feel is to aggressive for there current skill level, but I have also given people canopies, that if we just went by jump #'s would seem way too aggressive. It all comes down to a judgment call, yes some people might not get canopies they would be fine with and other people will get canopies the have no business under. That's just something we have to except.

Everyone at PD really works hard to make sure everyone who buys our canopies is 100% satisfied with them. We want you to be happy with your canopy. Judging by the huge response to this tread, it looks like we have been doing a pretty good job.

Later,
Isaiah

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You came out in public to bash a company for not giving you what you want, and when questioned of further details, you won't even back up your story. If you want to convince people publicly that PD sucks, then back up your claim with facts. If you have none and are just bitter because they're too smart to hand you a Velocity, then admit you were wrong and apologize before people really start thinking poorly of you for willfully and purposefully slandering a reputable company and a valuable asset to our skydiving community.

I often make posts then have to be away from the puter for hours. Not all of us can sit on dzcom all day long. Plus I know Binkster, he's a nice guy. I'm sure when he has time he'll respond.

Yeah, but where's my free t-shirt you cheap bastards.. 2 canopies and will be ordering another one soon. so send me my T-shirt biatches...hehehe