spootch 0 #201 February 15, 2012 Quote Quote If he was below safe cutaway altitude what happens if he just fired reserve? I know having two out isnt good but what would been downside? The downside is a possible downplane, or the reserve fouling the main (or vice-versa) or one flying around the other and twisting them both up. The idea of being too low to cutaway, and just dumping your reserve has a place, but I don't think this was it. Based on the fact that he was able to steer the canopy in for landing, and that it remained inflated the entire time, the main canopy wasn't 'that bad'. In the case of high speed mal, or an uncontrollable main, then yes, get as much fabric out as possible, because the risks are worth it. If your main appears to be OK, and you have enough control to land with a level wing and a good PLF, the intentional 2-out might not be the way to go. In any case, the best choice is to take action above your hard deck. Based on the time line of the video, I feel that this jumper had plenty of time above his hard deck to cutaway, and simply chose to take no action. Not looking up at the canopy suggestes to me thatthe guy was too scared to check the canopy or even consider a cutaway. Now thats what i'm talkin bout Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #202 February 15, 2012 QuoteI wish we knew if this was a planned 4 way or if it was a 2 way with solos following. I keep watching that part over and over, and parts of it make it look like a 2 way with the other two guys just following them out, while other aspects make it look like a 4 way jump. The guy he collided with was not one of the first two jumpers, but the guy that went out at the same time as him. I don't have much experience, but I have yet to see people jumping after me, or getting ready to jump and been as set up in the door as they were. Would there ever be a situation where you jump that soon after another group? It was almost instantaneous. I could maybe have seen it as 2 2ways, although that still doesn't explain his plan during freefall. A thought that has crossed my mind is that it's a 3-way with cameraman. Cameraman falls below/side of formation and he keeps looking at them or trying to "get up" above them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #203 February 15, 2012 Quote I'm sorry but I have a stupid question. I cant judge how high he was, maybe some of you with bunch of jumps can. If he was below safe cutaway altitude what happens if he just fired reserve? I know having two out isnt good but what would been downside? That would be a very bad idea! There was no roofs to land on. Newbie with camera + 2 out = roof landing If you remove the roof landing from the equation, then there is a blank next to the equal sign. Does that mean fatality? MAke sure there is a roof nearby before you get a 2 out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #204 February 15, 2012 Quote A thought that has crossed my mind is that it's a 3-way with cameraman. Cameraman falls below/side of formation and he keeps looking at them or trying to "get up" above them. 3way w/Camera is definately a possibility...... (guy with go pro) "Hey guys, I got this new camera. I think, for my first camera jump, I'd like to tag along and film your 3 way." (inexperienced 3 way) "Cool, none of us have any video of ourselves yet." Another thought... (just throwing out ideas here) It looks pretty wet. Although the camera lense seems to stay clear, is it possible his goggles fogged up?Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Austintxflight 0 #205 February 15, 2012 I just rewatched this again. There are actually 5 people on the jump. You can see one guy climb out onto the camera step before the 2 guys set up in the door. of the 5 people on the jump 4 of them have cameras. The guy who first goes onto the camera step, one of the guys setting up in the door, and the two guys chasing. So it looks like they had 4 plus a video guy, but it was so FUBAR that the camera guy was never seen except when he goes out on the camera step... If you watch from the 40 second point you can see the first guy go out to the camera step before the 3 guys get in the door. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #206 February 15, 2012 And, one other thought... In his defense, perhaps one of those broken lines was wrapped around his camera?? And, he may not have had a cutaway system?? This may explain why he never looked up (unable to) to check the canopy and would be a reason not to cutaway? It would be really nice to hear from him on this. Perhaps if we could have a discussion without the inevitable flame throwers, he'd be willing to post here?Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuai43 7 #207 February 15, 2012 QuoteI'm sorry but I have a stupid question. I cant judge how high he was, maybe some of you with bunch of jumps can. If he was below safe cutaway altitude what happens if he just fired reserve? I know having two out isnt good but what would been downside? I don't think anyone answered this yet, but @1:49, you can see his alti=3500', he pitches within 2 seconds after that, so I'm assuming he's open well above cutaway altitude - at least a couple grand AGL. vid (same link as original): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQSkN0Trrjk&feature=youtu.beEvery fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpsalot-2 3 #208 February 16, 2012 Quote And, one other thought... In his defense, perhaps one of those broken lines was wrapped around his camera?? And, he may not have had a cutaway system?? This may explain why he never looked up (unable to) to check the canopy and would be a reason not to cutaway? It would be really nice to hear from him on this. Perhaps if we could have a discussion without the inevitable flame throwers, he'd be willing to post here? Quote I have about 500 camera jumps and no cut-away system on it....I can get my helmet off in about three seconds under canopy ( this comes from years of motor cycle riding and lots of Bee stings )..... Life is short ... jump often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loch1957 0 #209 February 16, 2012 I just heard the guy on the ground say what if it had torn more, like over the run way. was reason i asked about reserve. I know he was well up there when he pulled, Sorry if im not making sense.Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuai43 7 #210 February 16, 2012 QuoteI just heard the guy on the ground say what if it had torn more, like over the run way. was reason i asked about reserve. I know he was well up there when he pulled, Sorry if im not making sense. If he'd waited until the canopy failed at the altitude where he was over the runway, he'd be fucked, pure and simple. He *might* have have had time to realize what was going on and perhaps reach for the reserve handle, but that'd be about it. Decision altitude is up high for a reason. Carnival of errors here. Biggest one IMO is not checking his canopy after the collision. He had plenty of time to exercise options.Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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