ematteo 0 #201 June 2, 2007 Mike, we are all responsible. Low man has right of way in the moment. But he can still die, even if he is right. Folks are trying to set up a system that eliminates conflicts. If "see and avoid" doesn't always work, let's set up a system that doesn't rely so much on that. Separating jumpers by speed and pattern altitude is such a system. To use a non-skydiving analogy, bicycles have the right of way on a street, vs. a car. But bicycles are not allowed on freeways. If separate landing areas are a goal, we do well to first create one where slow, low canopies don't go. No need to look out for a bicycle on the freeway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #202 June 2, 2007 I think we probably need to keep our debate in one thread!! I'd like have answers from any/all swoopers to a few questions, Poll here Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,822 #203 June 2, 2007 >To use a non-skydiving analogy, bicycles have the right of way on a street, >vs. a car. But bicycles are not allowed on freeways. Right. But we are not driving on streets, we are flying through the air - and thus air traffic rules are far more applicable and instructive. And you CAN mix Cessna 172's with King Airs provided everyone flies a standard pattern. You cannot, however, mix an air show with a standard patten - because someone might just roll out of their manuever into you on final. That is not to say that you can't do air shows, far from it. But it does mean that when you have that sort of very nonstandard flying you need special rules to allocate a separate airspace for them. This is done at all airshows. >If separate landing areas are a goal, we do well to first create one where slow, low canopies don't go. Yes. Hence: "If a jumper intends to make a standard landing, they will avoid using the HPL area." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ematteo 0 #204 June 2, 2007 This would be great if the proposals defined HPLs as something like: "high initiation altitude, speed-induced landings," and "standard landings" as "turns to final below 500 feet." Unfortunately, as written (in all 3 proposals), "HPLs" include S-turners, folks shooting classic accuracy and people loading at 0.8:1 doing slow 360s to lose altitude. These are "slow, low" approaches and any division of the landing area should segregate them from the "high initiation-altitude, speed-induced landings." Fix the definitions, and you probably will increase safety. Quote >If separate landing areas are a goal, we do well to first create one where slow, low canopies don't go. Yes. Hence: "If a jumper intends to make a standard landing, they will avoid using the HPL area." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chinchman99 0 #205 June 8, 2007 Yes.. swooping is not a crime.. not only that, but it is a thrilling discipline of skydiving. However, we do participate in a dangerous sport, and we need to do anything we can possibly do to make it safer. I saw Danny Page and Bob Holler DIE right in front of my eyes in Dublin. Something has to be done to prevent this from happening again. I think there should be a totally different landing area for swoopers... keep away from students, tandems, normal people, etc. Brian Germain is much more experienced than I may ever be, but we who like our skies safe don't want to see swooping go extinct, we want to be able to go home to our families at night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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