Would this piss you off?

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At my dropzone they ask that everyone check in with manifest after they land.

This simply is not feasible at a very large, busy DZ when you are putting up 2 or 3 planes at a time, dealing with up to 100 tandem passengers and twice that many fun jumpers in a single day.

Of course, every DZ I've ever been to keeps an eye on students and very low-time jumpers, but this responsibility usually lies with the instructor or gear checker.

That said, it would be rare that someone didn't notice a jumper landing way off target, and when that happens I've never known the wayward jumper not to be picked up by a good samaritan. It would be very uncool for said wayward jumper not to buy beer for their saviour at the end of the day though.

Cheers,
Eiley

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This simply is not feasible at a very large, busy DZ when you are putting up 2 or 3 planes at a time, dealing with up to 100 tandem passengers and twice that many fun jumpers in a single day.

I can see where that would be a little difficult.

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Of course, every DZ I've ever been to keeps an eye on students and very low-time jumpers

They do this very well at my home DZ. They keep a CLOSE eye on students.

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it would be rare that someone didn't notice a jumper landing way off target,

It is rare here too. But it does happen on ocassion. I think the thing to remember is that we are counting on fellow human beings to keep and eye out and let's face it there ain't one of us that is ever perfect so sometimes mistakes do happen. We just gotta deal with it and move on. This certainly would not keep me from returning to a DZ.

Now its my turn for a rant (and this is not aimed at you Sean, it was just convenient to reply to your post).

As Manifest Bitch, what pissed me off royally was when, during Night Jumps, you impress over and over again to the jumpers that it is vital that they check back in after their load. The vast majority of jumpers do so - not hard - "Hi Eiley, I'm back!". But there was always one or two who forgot. So, after a reasonable time, you start paging them to Manifest. No reply. Keep paging them. No reply. Start to worry, ask everyone else if they saw them etc. People think they did but not sure.

Finally, someone tells you they are over at the bar. They dumped their gear to pack tomorrow and forgot to check in.

This is just damn rude. Especially when, being Night Jumps, I may well have been in the box from 7am until 11 pm without a break.

Anyway, rant over. I'm sure all the lovely people reading DZ.com have never done this.

Cheers,
Eiley

What did I do to deserve you heated anger?! Geez I ALWAYS check in unless of course I forget. But then I get paged and I go to check in. Unless of course I am at the bar and can't hear the page..

I couldn't resist since you specifically said that it was. . .I mean wasn't directed at em.

I agree with your frustration here. I don't do night jumps yet but when I do you can bet I will be checking in. You manifest girls take good care of us we should take care of you.

(I'll take that beer you promised for the public display of support now..)

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If you have been grounded for 5 months, come back, decide to rent a student parachute to ensure a soft slow landing on your first jump back, have a premature deployment at 13K under this student parachute, take 45 minutes to get down, land 2 1/2 miles from the airport and nobody comes looking for you except your buddy you have been jumping with for 3 years and one other person who had to be coerced into looking for you? Assume this is not your home DZ but you have been jumping there for 1 year and you are a very familiar face.

So, would you be pissed?

I have not read the thread - just responding to your post.

Sounds to me like you managed to piss a few people off over that year. Being a familiar face is different from being a well liked person.

Why were you grounded for 5 months? Did you stay in touch, or just disappear?

Edit: OK. I read the thread. I feel psycic. Obviously bullshit going on here. And how do you define "nobody comes looking for you" apart from 2 other people?

t

First off, with "250ish" jumps, why don't you have your own gear? Ever hear of the "don't borrow gear"
rule in skydiving?

If you do borrow gear, ask yourself, "do I trust my life with this thing?" Did you pack the rig yourself?and make sure the container & pin flap closed properly, was the BOC pouch snug enough?

Secondly, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR SPOT.
If the spot sucks FOR ANY REASON!, hit the switch and do another pass. It's your money, you shouldn't have to pull at 6K to get back to the DZ.

You were open at 13K!!? and you didn't have enough altitude to get back to the DZ under a 280 SQ ft canopy?!! What happened?

Hey Funks......

Yo Funks.....

You haven't posted in a while and you've been asked a lot of questions here....(45 minutes? 2 1/2 miles away?)

Funks?....

Ok, somebody go look for Funks please!

What size main are you used to? (Doesn't say in his info) 45minutes? You should owe for the extra time. But the not looking part, I agree the bigger the DZ the harder it would be. However, even at our small DZ, things get busy, and we lose track of people for hours at times. Grow up and take care of yourself, but be sure to let the people at the DZ in on your concerns. Just don't burn your ties unless you feel you want to find another DZ. Skydivers are still the best group of people I hang around with.

Damn this thread has attracted alot of attention..so here we go....

Yes, I have my own gear..Sabre 170...rented the 288 because i have been grounded for 5 months due to destroying my knee in a motorcycle accident july 4th

Took 45 minutes due to winds...couldnt spiral down because the spot wasnt that hot and I wanted every chance to make it back to the DZ

Yes, 2 people came looking for me. My buddy and one other person, however..due to the distance and I guess because of what i am use to I would have expected at least one car out to pick me up...Thats what we do at my home DZ

Sorry, but I guess I am just use to different reactions when someone lands so far off...I personally dont think it is to much to expect a group of your fellow skydivers to be concerned and come out looking for you.

just got an email from someone who was there and has been following the thread...here is his email pasted word for word on his take of the situation...pretty much sums it up....

"You should tell the whole story of the day. Why you were off for 5 months, your date WASN”T one of the people to go look for you. You were originally going to do a belly jump but you forgot your goggles (I don’t know why that is a big deal), high winds up top, they were paging you to manifest (according to your woman) before you got back (which by that time it was dark) just because they wanted you to fill out your check, another load did go up while you landed out, etc. admit that it ultimately is your responsibility what happens to you on your jumps but you were disappointed that more of an effort wasn’t made to come pick you up and that you will chalk it up to experience and won’t expect much from fellow jumpers anymore…"

45 minutes under canopy? Even a Manta 288 shouldn’t take that long to come down from 13,000 feet. [288 FPM] 45 minutes in a harness, especially not a custom fitted harness, would be very uncomfortable (I’ve done it).

Did any other loads go up while you were under canopy?

Did you jump with anyone else?

Your profile doesn’t list a USPA license. Do you have a license? If yes, which one? (A, B, C, and/or D)

What was the cause of the pre-mature deployment?

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Took 45 minutes due to winds...couldnt spiral down because the spot wasnt that hot and I wanted every chance to make it back to the DZ

Who spotted?

Winds don't affect your decent rate.

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Yes, 2 people came looking for me. My buddy and one other person, however..due to the distance and I guess because of what i am use to I would have expected at least one car out to pick me up...Thats what we do at my home DZ

Your buddy came looking for you in a car, right? That's one car. Why would the DZ send another?

Derek

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At my dropzone they ask that everyone check in with manifest after they land.

This simply is not feasible at a very large, busy DZ when you are putting up 2 or 3 planes at a time, dealing with up to 100 tandem passengers and twice that many fun jumpers in a single day.

But the large DZ's have no problem finding some one to manifest the load? Or to take the money for each jump? Seems a simple step to ask the jumpers to check back in and if someone is missing a check a simple, timely page could save a life. It's the little things we do that make it so much better.

This is another reason I prefer the smaller DZs.

Jump

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45 minutes under canopy? Even a Manta 288 shouldn’t take that long to come down from 13,000 feet. [288 FPM] 45 minutes in a harness, especially not a custom fitted harness, would be very uncomfortable (I’ve done it).

Did any other loads go up while you were under canopy?

Yes, other loads did go up.

Did you jump with anyone else?

Yes, jumped with a jumpmaster

Your profile doesn’t list a USPA license. Do you have a license? If yes, which one? (A, B, C, and/or D)

A License, hence the reason for jumping with the JM

What was the cause of the pre-mature deployment?

Student rig with some exposed bridal. No issues here, my responsibility 100%. Note, I have never said I had one issue with the premie.

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Took 45 minutes due to winds...couldnt spiral down because the spot wasnt that hot and I wanted every chance to make it back to the DZ

Who spotted?

The spot was not that bad. If I was under my 170 it would not have been an issue. However, as everyone knows, the winds at 13K are a hell of a lot stronger than at 2500...the second I was open I had the wind slowly pushing me back.

Winds don't affect your decent rate.

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Yes, 2 people came looking for me. My buddy and one other person, however..due to the distance and I guess because of what i am use to I would have expected at least one car out to pick me up...Thats what we do at my home DZ

Your buddy came looking for you in a car, right? That's one car. Why would the DZ send another?

They did not come out in a car, they chose to go out on foot through the woods.

Derek

Then I would have an issue with the DZ for not sending someone to come get me since the JM (either Coach or Instructor) must have known you landed off.

Derek

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I suppose it could get interesting if a solo decided to track off into the sunset never to be seen again....It's certainly one of the scenarios I've toyed with if I ever wanted to disappear from society. I figure I could get at least a couple of days head start before people began looking and by that time I'd already be in Tahiti.

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that's some track you must have there quade

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

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Yeah, I'd be pissed. I've landed off many a time (its how I got my name) and I always appreciate a ride.

--Jumping a Goliath-378 (student gear at my DZ as I hadn't bought my own gear yet).
--~my 30th jump

Why were you jumpin' a tandem canopy?

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What happened to skydiving being a brotherhood/sisterhood etc?? Look after your brothers and sisters. Even if it is their fault that they landed out, I struggle to see a good reason for not going to get them. And, you can take a camera and maybe get that skydiver in tree or powerlines picture that is always a classic.

What if no one saw him? I asked questions earlier that would have cleared up some of the questions but no response.

I was there, and I have e-mailed funks (although I was not the person he quoted earlier).

I knew he landed off, and of course the instructor knew he landed off. Everyone also knew that someone had gone to get him. I did not know, however, that the person going to get him was on foot. If he truly landed 2.5 miles away, I don't know why this person chose to go on foot, it seems silly to me.

There must have been some miscommunication. Usually at our DZ, when someone lands off, manifest or an instructor will find someone to go pick him/her up, and make sure they have a cell phone in case something is wrong. What may have happened, is that funks' buddy announced that he was going to get him, but no one checked to make sure he was in a car, and with a cell phone. I don't know.

Either way, concerned people at the DZ knew that he landed off, and that someone was after him. I don't know what else we were expected to do. We certainly weren't going to shut the plane down on a busy day.

I'm sorry that funks had a less than optimun experience, but (not trying to be rude) everything that happened was esentially his own fault.

- Dan G

Thanks Dan,
That actually clears up this whole thread!!!!!!!!!
So why the anger at the dz instead of his friends? Yo friends, the dude's 2.5 or so miles away, can you walk out there so he doesn't have to walk all the way back by himself?

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I was there, and I have e-mailed funks (although I was not the person he quoted earlier).

I knew he landed off, and of course the instructor knew he landed off. Everyone also knew that someone had gone to get him. I did not know, however, that the person going to get him was on foot. If he truly landed 2.5 miles away, I don't know why this person chose to go on foot, it seems silly to me.

There must have been some miscommunication. Usually at our DZ, when someone lands off, manifest or an instructor will find someone to go pick him/her up, and make sure they have a cell phone in case something is wrong. What may have happened, is that funks' buddy announced that he was going to get him, but no one checked to make sure he was in a car, and with a cell phone. I don't know.

Either way, concerned people at the DZ knew that he landed off, and that someone was after him. I don't know what else we were expected to do. We certainly weren't going to shut the plane down on a busy day.

I'm sorry that funks had a less than optimun experience, but (not trying to be rude) everything that happened was esentially his own fault.

- Dan G

What if my buddy did not go looking for me? I may be wrong but I have a very strong feeling no one would have. Dan..question for you...if you would have landed way off do you think a lot of people would have gone out looking for you? I have a feeling the answer would be YES. In my mind that is wrong. Just because that is your home DZ but not mine does that justify that fact...Not to me it doesnt. I never expected the plane to shut down..and you say "everything that happened was essetially my own fault" Sorry dude, but thats a pretty poor attitude...Hey, next time I see someone femur themself I will be sure to take the same attitude.

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But the large DZ's have no problem finding some one to manifest the load?

The difference is that jumpers are motivated to buy jump tickets and get on the planes, but they are not motivated to all return to the same place to check
back in after jumping. As a matter of fact, there is a disincentive for them to do so in the form of a much, much longer walk. Over the course of a busy day, it might add up to a couple of miles of extra walking per jumper. Having somebody track down all the jumpers that would decide not to walk back to check in would be a waste of resources.

I'd much rather have someone standing out near the landing area just watching for people landing off and then go get them -- which is what we do.

Does it work 99.9% of the time -- sure!

Is it a perfect system? No. It can't be. No system could be.

I don't see why getting jumpers to check themselves out and back in is such an issue...

Having jumped in a few countries, I can say I really like the way the British Parachute Association works.

At the DZ I jumped In England (and I believe they operated very much to standard BPA procedures), every jumper got a flightline check from any other B-license or above jumper (part of the B-License requirements are the abilities to give these checks) and would be signed off by them too.

Then the jumpmaster (there was always a designated jumpmaster on every load - also had to be B-License or above) has a manifest sheet with the whole load and you better believe that if you were on it and there was no signature next to your check, they'll let you know all about it....

This way you know that everyone who gets on the plane had a proper gearcheck, loops, pins, handles, repack dates, equipment suitability, etc. (expect the check to be done by a more senior DZ person if you're not known there).

Then, when you get back, you draw a line through your name (on the same sheet) to show you're back.

That way, if you don't check yourself back in, they can give you a hard time at manifest when you next show up there....

I wouldn't say checking that all jumpers are back on big DZ's is unfeasible, admittedly it's a big job, but it can be handled amongst the jumpers themselves with the right system.

just my two cents

cheers

Sam

Not that it matters anymore because i think there has been enough said on this subject, but the buddy did go out in a car to look for the jumper. The person (from the DZ) who was driving stopped about 1/10 of a mile later for fear of getting stuck in the mud (which was fine, i wouldn't want to be stuck in the mud either). Both continued on foot over the river and through the wood to look for the jumper. Yelling and walking they saw the jumper about a half mile off and the buddy continued on jogging and caught up to the juper in another half mile. At this point the DZ driver turned back. I don't know if he got his car out or not nor do i know if he reported on the situation out in the field (although it doesn't seem so or else Dan would know about it, although he could have been gone by that time). Anyway, the buddy got to the jumper and found he was in working order, although it looked like he was limping a bit. Then jumper and buddy walked back along the road the mile or two and got back. By that time it was dark. As you can guess, i am the buddy.

As i said i think that this subject has had a full discussion and I think that we all can chalk this up to experience and i think that we all learned some lessons whatever they are (I know i am jumping with a phone and walking shoes )

Blue skies to all...

Doesn't sound like a very "jumper friendly" DZ to me.

We were doing night jumps at the DZ I started jumping at and when we got down one person was missing. And, it was his first time there. The DZO stopped all jumping and EVERYONE started looking for this guy. We thought he might have landed out and twisted his ankle or something. After about an hour or two we started getting pretty worried, but we kept looking...

Turns out he didn't know what the DZ looked like at night so he headed for the best lighted area he could see, a indian casino. One of the search teams found him walking down the highway. Needless to say he was pretty embarassed.

The bad part of this is I almost pointed out the DZ to him on the way up. Would of saved us all alot of time and worry. Not to mention we didn't do anymore jumps that night!