Havok Carve or Squirrel Funk?

Really looking forward to some reviews of people getting both suits!

I've been considering getting a new one. Havok has great reviews and is cheaper when ordered from EU without VAT but has much longer wait times and could be a pain in the but with having the suit shipped back if alterations/repairs are needed.

Funk is way too new to judge, is pricier but support is outstanding.

Definitely looking forward to see which is preferred (since best is very subjective) by non-sponsored flyers. Sqwrl - looking at you buddy

I'm not exactly sure why anyone would want to own both (in the same size) since they are both designed to do the same job. I own a lot of suits, but I run a school so I do generally have multiple suits by different manufacturers with the same general wings size (acro/phantom/student-intro sized). No reason to own multiple suits in the same size with wings that large in my opinion. YMMV.

Agreed, but from this thread alone, there are people who ordered both and will keep the one they prefer the most.
Those will be the ones I will rely on more than any sponsored jumpers.

edit: ideally I'd like to demo both ... but that's a pretty low possibility especially that Squirrel doesn't have a demo fleet (yet).
Maybe I will make a trip to Boston and have Skwrl let me jump both

Even with trying the two you re not sure to "see" which one is better, even for yourself. Some suit are hard to handle at first but have a lot of perf after some jumps, other let you fly well at first but without progression after. Buy the sexiest one...

The best suit is always the one you fly the most. Whatever you get, you'll fly it, like it, and get better in it.

michalm21

Agreed, but from this thread alone, there are people who ordered both and will keep the one they prefer the most.
Those will be the ones I will rely on more than any sponsored jumpers.

edit: ideally I'd like to demo both ... but that's a pretty low possibility especially that Squirrel doesn't have a demo fleet (yet).
Maybe I will make a trip to Boston and have Skwrl let me jump both

You're welcome to, Michal - at least until I sell whichever one I don't like more.

I'm also planning on ordering a R2B2 (or whatever the Tonysuit version will be called) for the same purpose/use.

Don t forget SFly Hawk and Intrudair Baracuda

Quote

Agreed, but from this thread alone, there are people who ordered both and will keep the one they prefer the most.

I can't argue with that since I've done exactly the same thing with swooping canopies in the past. If you can afford it, it's a fantastic plan. Carry on.

Chuck

Adding my $0.02. I'm probably quite biased, since I have about 500 jumps on a Phantom 2 and a Shadow 2.

I flew a Funk twice, the original Havok a few times, and now the Havok Carve a few times.

Although the Funk's shape is obviously based on the Havok, there are a number of significant design differences. Phoenix-Fly's design is focused on a close fit, which I felt translates into sharper movements in things like transitions, barrel rolls, and especially carving. Squirrel's version incorporates the punch through arm sleeve, with a trade-off of a looser fit in the body (because you raise your knees in order to punch your arms out) and a looser fit on the arms, with stretchy material.

I was able to do transitions, backflying, and carving in both suits, but the Havok feels more like an extension of my body, rather than my body manipulating material around me. I'm used to flying a Shadow, which has the same hand loops as the Havok, compared to the thumb loops on the Funk. With the inflation zips undone in the Funk, it felt like a lot of fabric to move around, and with them done up, it felt like I was in an inflatable mattress. Mind you, the Funk that I flew with zips undone was big on me (although the guy I borrowed it from said it also felt big on him - same height, but he's heavier). The second Funk that I flew (with inflation zips done up) was built for a guy the same size as me.

Both suits have impressive glide performance - I'm sure I could easily fly over 3 minutes in either (but I don't focus on performance).

The first time I set up the Funk, I found the innie-outie zippers to be a fair bit more work, but the second time, I started to get used to it. Since I don't BASE jump (yet?), this feature isn't important to me. I did see another Funk where the cutaway handle was partially sucked into the suit while in a sitting position, and the guy said he just makes sure that his handles are ok before exiting. I didn't have that issue on my rig though.

The Havok Carve has longer leg zippers than previous PF suits, which makes it far easier to get into. I can get into the Havok while standing up, with almost as much ease as just the rig by itself. The Funk is also easy to get into.

Summary: Certainly, much of this comes down to personal preferences. For acro stuff (which is what I'm focused on), I definitely feel that the Havok performs better.

Alright, I too did fly the suits in this class. I own or owned the S-Fly Hawk, Havok Carve and Funk. I came from the classic Havok recently. A note about "fit" which I hear people discuss sometimes a lot. The suits where built for me and the Funk had the best fit of them all in my case:

So to compare the PF Havok Carve vs Squirrel Funk vs S-Fly Hawk; this is my view! Disclaimer: your view might be different blablablabla and so it should be.

Build quality: All suits are sturdy built. If a winner *have* to be picked it is the Havok Carve due to being built like a tank. Cool features on the Funk like the Rubber on the backside could be fragile in the skydiving environment I imagine, but time will tell.

Performance (based on my Flysight measurements): Havok Carve is leading, but followed closely by the Funk, then last the Hawk - which also is a smaller suit mind you. Forward speed-wise the Hawk is just as fast.

Agility: Hawk is extremely agile, it is in its own class. Funk and Havok Carve follows in no particular order IMO. All of the suits ARE very agile, so difference in this area is manageable as one learn to fly the suit chosen. All suits are simply excellent. I agree that Havok Carve "feels" more accurate than the Funk, on the other hand the Funk "makes me smile a'lot for some reason".

Fly-ability: Funk leads followed by Hawk, they are both simple and totally intuitive to fly. Funk is completely intuitive and a delight to fly. Hawk too is intuitive but I do not fancy the more narrow leg-stance in general, makes it feel somewhat more nervous, but again it is extremely agile and wants to go... The Havok Carve feels like a real dragster big-suit and it is also sensitive to the foot angling/position. All suits have very easy pull. I only use the Funk w. all internal zippers closed, I still think that the Carve feels harder (some say more inflated) than the other suits. Inflating the suits using a leaf-blower, the Carve has the thickest profiles especially close to the body, but the Funk takes at least twice the time to deflate again.

Ergonomically: All of them are nice. The Havok Carve is easier to get in and out of, superb really. Funk don't have the stretchy neoprene back or front as the Carve and the Hawk, and therefore somewhat less nice. Hawk is very tight on the calf's and the leg-stance is narrow and it only has a single front zipper. Funk is second and Hawk is last.

Rig mounting: The Hawk is best. It has the same zipper system on the back as the Funk and the front holes are perfectly done, very reassuring and safe. Havok Carve has the good old PF mounting system. It is safe and is the easiest system to use, but it could use some refinement IMO. Funk is utilizing the same attachment system as Colugo/Aura. IMO the system needs to be improved on to make it "more reassuring" in the often very cramped Skydiving environment.

My final conclusion is that these suits really are head to head and each have its con's and pro's, individual preferences for specific features therefore makes the deal for each and every. You can't go wrong with either of them really. And which suit copied which suits design? Well it is nonsense IMO; in the air they feel quite different, though they all look alike on the ground.

Hope this helps

birdynamnam

All suits have very easy pull. I only use the Funk w. all internal zippers closed, I still think that the Carve feels harder (some say more inflated) than the other suits. Inflating the suits using a leaf-blower, the Carve has the thickest profiles especially close to the body, but the Funk takes at least twice the time to deflate again.

I got to demo a Carve this weekend and I found the exact opposite. The Funk inflates like a rock, while the Carve seemed much softer. During pull time, this was definitely noticeable. With the Funk, I have to take my time to really squeeze all the air out, while the Carve had a super easy pull. I keep my Funk zippers totally open still because of this.

Mentosfresh

I got to demo a Carve this weekend and I found the exact opposite. The Funk inflates like a rock, while the Carve seemed much softer. During pull time, this was definitely noticeable. With the Funk, I have to take my time to really squeeze all the air out, while the Carve had a super easy pull. I keep my Funk zippers totally open still because of this.

That's because you're doing it wrong. You don't want to "squeeze" the air out with the funk. It is designed so you more "wrap" your hand and forearm around the back of the suit and to your BOC. It is much much easier than trying to force the wing closed.

BeauRiebe

***
I got to demo a Carve this weekend and I found the exact opposite. The Funk inflates like a rock, while the Carve seemed much softer. During pull time, this was definitely noticeable. With the Funk, I have to take my time to really squeeze all the air out, while the Carve had a super easy pull. I keep my Funk zippers totally open still because of this.

That's because you're doing it wrong. You don't want to "squeeze" the air out with the funk. It is designed so you more "wrap" your hand and forearm around the back of the suit and to your BOC. Practice on the ground and then in the air. It is much much easier than trying to force the wing closed.

Thanks is everyone for great info on the suit difference. Still is hard to decide, before I knew to little, now I know so much! But is sound like all three suits cant go wrong just personal feeling, but keep writing, I want to know more even!

Slater

BeauRiebe

***
I got to demo a Carve this weekend and I found the exact opposite. The Funk inflates like a rock, while the Carve seemed much softer. During pull time, this was definitely noticeable. With the Funk, I have to take my time to really squeeze all the air out, while the Carve had a super easy pull. I keep my Funk zippers totally open still because of this.

That's because you're doing it wrong. You don't want to "squeeze" the air out with the funk. It is designed so you more "wrap" your hand and forearm around the back of the suit and to your BOC. It is much much easier than trying to force the wing closed.

^THIS!

birdynamnam

....on the other hand the Funk "makes me smile a'lot for some reason".

That's it! What other "feature" do we need? Shut up and take my money!

BeauRiebe

***
I got to demo a Carve this weekend and I found the exact opposite. The Funk inflates like a rock, while the Carve seemed much softer. During pull time, this was definitely noticeable. With the Funk, I have to take my time to really squeeze all the air out, while the Carve had a super easy pull. I keep my Funk zippers totally open still because of this.

That's because you're doing it wrong. You don't want to "squeeze" the air out with the funk. It is designed so you more "wrap" your hand and forearm around the back of the suit and to your BOC. It is much much easier than trying to force the wing closed.

It wasn't just the wings. I found the tail on the Funk harder to close as well compared to the Carve. Even with the tail zipper all the way open, it still has a slightly higher pressure than the Carve.

So, um, don't close it?

Little video related to this topic: Funk vs. Havok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxnlm_YClIw

But I guess in this case "it's not the arrow, it's the indian!"

PS: Demoed the new "Barracuda" from Intrudair recently. Awesome suit in this category as well, rock solid on its back and effortless transitions. Might be worth taking into consideration as another option.

***But I guess in this case "it's not the arrow, it's the indian!" ***


Without a doubt

1min30 flying on belly? Maybe he should try to open both arms and legs

I recently got the chance to demo both suits for one day.

I liked the Carve better: Transitions belly/back went effortless and smoother, it felt a bit more precise.

The Funk is a great suit as well, but I don't like the Innie-Outie System at all compared to the classic "over the shoulder zipper". It is a bit more work to zip the rig in and one zipper got stuck and took a little bite of my T-shirt when I put the rig off after the jump. But no problems with sucked-in handles, that was good.

On the other side I liked the velcro fastened leg zipper extension and the neoprene flex rubber on the heels the Funk comes with.

The pull was easy and smooth on both suits, no problems here.

One little thing: The Funk felt more sweaty on a hot summer day than the Carve (Parapak)

Any fresh takes on this topic?

 

 

3 hours ago, Wjtyrer said:

Any fresh takes on this topic?

 

 

The havoc is still the go to suit for a lot of stuff, for example acro. It's stayed pretty much the same with some minor updates, mostly to the inlets (practically speaking the difference is barely perceptible).

Funk has been through several re-designs but at this point I can't think of anyone ordering it. Squirrel has focused their efforts on larger suits that are more successful for them.

That said, the world did move towards larger suits being more popular in general. Usually people view this class of wingsuit as a stepping stone to something larger, not something they plan on flying for a while.

On 11/29/2021 at 6:54 AM, lyosha said:

The havoc is still the go to suit for a lot of stuff, for example acro. It's stayed pretty much the same with some minor updates, mostly to the inlets (practically speaking the difference is barely perceptible).

Funk has been through several re-designs but at this point I can't think of anyone ordering it. Squirrel has focused their efforts on larger suits that are more successful for them.

That said, the world did move towards larger suits being more popular in general. Usually people view this class of wingsuit as a stepping stone to something larger, not something they plan on flying for a while.

I asked Mike from Squirrel when they planned on releasing the Funk4. Clearly got pushed to the back burner. For reasons $$$. I'd say lack of a good business model, considering what has happened thus far in 2021.  

On 11/29/2021 at 2:03 AM, Wjtyrer said:

Any fresh takes on this topic?

 

 

My fresh take is if you’re considering a Carve or Funk as a next step in your progression, it depends on what your friends are flying. If you are looking to get on a big record formation with Purple Mike, most people are flying a Carve. I was in a Swift4 on the recent Tennessee WS Record and wished I had a Carve. However, I don’t have any trouble flying my Swift4 w/ Carves or Funks on 2-way play flights. The Carve/Funk is a lot slower/floatier than a Swift.

If you’re in the US and considering a Carve or Funk as a step in your progression, I’d say don’t. I’ve been told the reason why SQRL makes the Funk is mostly for the Euro market as gripperless designs and general acro type flying are more prevalent over there.

In the US, I’m seeing a lot of ATCs and Freaks. I can stay w/ Freaks in my Swift4 with a lot of effort and mutual compromise. A lot of people fly an ATC so they can fly with Swifts, Funks, Carves and Freaks with less effort. The ATC3 is a great all around suit.

The ATC3 and Freak4 w/ Mono-chamber are highly acrobatic and probably make the Funk/Carve unnecessary unless you plan to jump w/ someone else/many others in that specific model or if you plan to do serious acrobatic competition. If you are considering doing serious acrobatic competition, you’ll likely want to talk to @mccordia and get his opinion.