Buy an old PF Havok?

Hi,

someone offered a Phoenix Fly Havok (original, not Carve - built in 2014), that's still quite new (low jump numbers).

Would you buy it or go for a newer wingsuit? Price is about 500 $

Well I think the Havok sucks so I wouldent buy it for any amount. They are quite slow. A Swift 3 can outfly one. But if you're just doing solos on your own, then who am I tell you what you may or may not like. I just wouldent buy one myself.

Don’t listen to Jerry McGee here. The Havok is a great suit, and the only people that bash them are ones that have no experience flying them. 
 
if you can’t keep up with a swift, you probably just don’t know how to fly a wingsuit.

The Havok is a great suit, but 500 is steep for that old of technology.

Yes the Havok is a great suit. If it's in good condition then yes. I can't say about the price, but the question is more: what sort of flying do you want to do?

If you want a good all-rounder suit that is stable on belly, back, offers easy maneouvreability and transitions, and nice range on smaller suits, the Havok is perfect.

Sure the latest model will be a bit better but the original will offer just as much fun. 

The original Havok is a good suit, but in flying you do notice the difference between the older model and the steps up toward the current 2020 release.

Though $500 is less than half of a new/current model, I do think you can probably find something more recent (Carve or Carve 2) for a similar price...

I've owned about 12 wingsuits over the years. The original Havok is the only one I KNOW that I will never sell.

People who bash Havoks are usually fanatics about speed being the only metric by which a WS should be measured. They are also usually choking on light blue Kool-Aide.

You should be able to get it cheaper than $500. If you do, it will be the most fun-per-dollar WS you'll own.

On 5/18/2020 at 2:35 PM, frontloop33 said:

Hi,

someone offered a Phoenix Fly Havok (original, not Carve - built in 2014), that's still quite new (low jump numbers).

Would you buy it or go for a newer wingsuit? Price is about 500 $

Hell yes I would.  It's actually what I did.

Three years (and two job changes) later I bought a C2rve that was made for me, and it does fly a little better - but outside of the tunnel (which isn't in your future if you're trying to save $$$) you're not going to tell the difference.

My wife still flies her original Havoc from like a decade ago, and kicks major ass in it.  She actually prefers it to her Magister.  Gonna be hard to get her to retire it... and it's in really rough shape.

I then passed that Havoc on to the next guy for $400 or so to the next guy.  He's having a blast... or was before the COVID.

The planform has aged well.  If you're strapped for cash, something in the Havoc family for a price you can pay is a good choice, even if that something is the original.

I have 500 jumps on my original Havok and just did my first WS BASE jumps with it last year. They’re amazing suits and I think they’re probably the best all around suits ever made, but I’d only be offering like 350 for one now. For 500 you can find a Carve and for a bit more a C2rve 

 g

I loved the old Havok, so if price is right...

I put a couple hundred jumps on an original Havok, it remains one of my favorite suits.

the havok absolutely sucks. it's literately slow as balls. I can outfly one in my sleep with something even as simple as an ATC. anyone who recommends a havok clearly has absolutely no experience with performance flying.

fanboi detected

Anyone who compares a Havok to a performance suit clearly has absolutely no experience with acro flying.

20 hours ago, Bluhdow said:

Anyone who compares a Havok to a performance suit clearly has absolutely no experience with acro flying.

or performance flying

4 hours ago, birdynamnam said:

or performance flying

Zero to trash talking in one full season of jumping!
 

11 hours ago, lyosha said:

Zero to trash talking in one full season of jumping!
 

 

Two seasons actually (and part way into the 3rd), and I now have 1,150 WS jumps including 100 WS BASE jumps on more than 50 wingsuits (mostly 5-6 suits). Just because most people only do 200 jumps a year doesent mean we all do. Also, there are no 'seasons' in half the USA where DZs are open year-round. Regardless, the Carve is slow and I'll back that in person if anyone wants to come to the DZ with one.

21 hours ago, Westerly said:

Two seasons actually (and part way into the 3rd), and I now have 1,150 WS jumps including 100 WS BASE jumps on more than 50 wingsuits (mostly 5-6 suits). Just because most people only do 200 jumps a year doesent mean we all do. Also, there are no 'seasons' in half the USA where DZs are open year-round. Regardless, the Carve is slow and I'll back that in person if anyone wants to come to the DZ with one.

You’re missing the point entirely. The Havok was designed for acro. The ATC was not. Comparing them doesn’t make sense, and you just sound like an idiot for bringing them up in the same conversation. 

In related news: Pickup trucks absolutely suck. They are literately slow as balls. I can out race one in my sleep with something even as simple as a sedan. Anyone who recommends a pickup truck clearly has absolutely no experience with performance driving.

If you think the Havok has no value because it's too slow for performance, then you have a very one-dimensional view of wingsuit flying and you don't understand what the Havok is.

But you've been doing this for multiple years now, so you must know that already. Forgive my intrusion on your lecture.

yes, I get it, the Havok is an acro suit. I know that. I know the ATC is not an acro suit. I also know that most people who are new to wingsuiting are NOT looking to do serious competition acro or something like that. They just want to flock with their friends and maybe do some backflying or whatever. In that respect, the Havok gets left behind easily. I dont know how many countless jumps I've done (It's a lot--too many to count) where there were Havoks in the group, we were just doing a basic belly flock, and the Havoks got left behind out to do a solo. It happens literately all the time. That is not to say NO ONE can EVER fly a Havok fast--I know a guy who did PPC in one. But most of the people I have seen fly them do not keep up. This is not to say the Havok is the ONLY suit that gets left behind in formations. There are others as well (swift 1 for example sucks).

My point is if he is going to buy a wingsuit to just go cruise around with friends, why not buy something that actually has a reasonable level of performance so he can actually stay in the damn jump?

9 hours ago, Westerly said:

That is not to say NO ONE can EVER fly a Havok fast--I know a guy who did PPC in one. But most of the people I have seen fly them do not keep up. This is not to say the Havok is the ONLY suit that gets left behind in formations. There are others as well (swift 1 for example sucks).

You can do PPC in any wingsuit. I used to do it in my Phantom 2. 

It just sounds like you and your friends are simply flocking in bigger suits and are unwilling to dial it back a bit to accomodate others with less experience.

So yes, for the OP, if he wants to fly with friends it does depend on what those friends are jumping and how they are flying as to whether he keeps up or not. 

Here's some video from last year in my Havok Carve 2, around the 3.30 to 4.28 mark. I had some nice jumps with people in Strixs, an ATC, Hunter, but of course if they'd put on the power then yes I would have eventually been left behind. 

https://vimeo.com/398767154

well. 

I decided to skip this "opportunity". 

I'm still not sure what wingsuit to buy. 

I'm only doing about 20 - 30 WS flights per year (40 - 50 skydives total including these flights).

So I'm not sure if suits like Havok or Funk/ATC are and always will be too challenging for me, even if I have 100 WS jumps (total) in 3 to 4 years. 
Should I just stick with entry-suits (swift/Phantom/magister)?

Or can I step up to intermediate suits? 

8 hours ago, frontloop33 said:

well. 

I decided to skip this "opportunity". 

I'm still not sure what wingsuit to buy. 

I'm only doing about 20 - 30 WS flights per year (40 - 50 skydives total including these flights).

So I'm not sure if suits like Havok or Funk/ATC are and always will be too challenging for me, even if I have 100 WS jumps (total) in 3 to 4 years. 
Should I just stick with entry-suits (swift/Phantom/magister)?

Or can I step up to intermediate suits? 

If you're only doing 20 jumps a year and you only have 100 WS to begin with, I'd stick to a beginner suit. An intermediate suit like an ATC can spin you up with a quickness if you lose control of it. 

Well, I don't mean to step up right now.

It's more a general question, if I ever should step up with only 20 flights a year.