Down Plane probe, strap, slings

Can some advise a probe/ slings used for downplane in CRW, what is the dimension?, how the release system works?, Where is it fitted to?, Please include a detail picture/ sketch. Many thanks.

Feriansyah A

Be careful if you venture there. Those things are nicknamed "Death Straps". There's differing opinions on whether that nickname is deserved or not, but such straps do add risk to a skydive in ways that are not readily apparent, so always keep thinking critically. My advice would be to seek out someone who is experienced in parabatics jumps with and without such straps, and jump/talk with them extensively. And because of their perceived risks, people are more likely to talk construction and dimensions when in-person rather than via the internet with someone far away.

2 hours ago, IJskonijn said:

Be careful if you venture there. Those things are nicknamed "Death Straps". There's differing opinions on whether that nickname is deserved or not, but such straps do add risk to a skydive in ways that are not readily apparent, so always keep thinking critically. My advice would be to seek out someone who is experienced in parabatics jumps with and without such straps, and jump/talk with them extensively. And because of their perceived risks, people are more likely to talk construction and dimensions when in-person rather than via the internet with someone far away.

Excellent response to this question. 

Just out of curiosity, what are probe/slings used for downplane in CRW?

15 hours ago, Pit76 said:

Just out of curiosity, what are probe/slings used for downplane in CRW?

An intentional downplane in CRW can be flown in different ways. One way is to stack, plane, climb down and transition to a grip where each jumper holds on to the other jumper's legs. If you fly a side-by-side this way, it's easy to transition to a downplane by steering both canopies out, and its easy to break up the downplane by letting go of the legs. I've tried this a few times myself, and in my experience it is not easy to get a proper grip and you need a lot of force from both persons to keep the grip stable. If one person releases that force, the other won't be able to hang on and both jumpers will fly away from each other.

Another way to do it that is physically easier is to make a harness with quick-release that you can connect to your own rig, and have a strap that can be connected between the two jumpers. I have made one jump with such a system (together with a CRW jumper who is very experienced in their use), and it is much easier to create a downplane with them, since you do not rely on muscle power to keep the connection. The downside is that you are more solidly connected to the other jumper, and if you cannot break that connection in time it can result in you both impacting the ground at downplane speeds. Typically, both jumpers have a cutaway system similar to a three-ring system on their end. One of the dangers (no exhaustive list) of this system happens if the strap gets twisted around somehow. This can lock in the release system, making release extremely difficult or pretty much impossible.

Hence my advice regarding this topic. Here Be Dragons! Venture forth at your own risk. Always think deeply before you act, and talk with many experienced people. Weigh their advice carefully, and don't throw it aside lightly.

Trevor and I faced the same problem . Death straps were never an option. We used hand grips instead,  as described in Terry Parsons CRW book.  Spinning Down-plane or Pinwheel. After you have a bi-plane jump down in front ( squat down remove feet from risers ) both jumpers hold the other's harness just below cutaway handle with right hands(thumbs down). Both jumpers use left hands to apply full right toggle ( front jumper first until clear). Pull it right down to your lucky charms. Hang on as long as possible. We would burn off 1000 ft before the tension was too great. 

Thanks for the Terry Parsons mention.

wrap?

sure!

Craig

Team Wrapture, circa 1983-84-85ish

Kleggo ... did you actually get your hands on a copy of that book?

It was so funny and functional at the same time ... excellent book.

The link below is...well...setting a bad example...just don't look to closely.

That guy already had one CRW jump...so he was experienced!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UwZGBc0IEg568cuKQUtVLJY0YaJenir7/view?usp=sharing

On 7/5/2019 at 3:54 AM, IJskonijn said:

Be careful if you venture there. Those things are nicknamed "Death Straps". There's differing opinions on whether that nickname is deserved or not, but such straps do add risk to a skydive in ways that are not readily apparent, so always keep thinking critically. My advice would be to seek out someone who is experienced in parabatics jumps with and without such straps, and jump/talk with them extensively. And because of their perceived risks, people are more likely to talk construction and dimensions when in-person rather than via the internet with someone far away.

I concur.

Chris Bickerdike and another guy landed a downplane years ago at Raeford when they couldn't release their suicide strap. Big hospital bills and lucky they didn't die.

Definitely seek advice/training from folks with a lot of experience before trying it.

If looking for current info on using "death straps" I recommend the following resources

• The Raw Dogs CReW group
• Any military demonstration team.

and nope, haven't seen my Terry Parsons book for a LONG time.

just thinking out loud, would deploying a reserve into a downplane where you couldn't release the straps be advised or not?  i mean, it may not help anything, but it may slow you down a bit and make it more survivable, but i'd hate for it to have some affect like wrapping around the main and collapsing everything. 

I did a search for Raw Dogs on the forums...maybe I spelt it wrong...

I did a search for micro0line death CRW...still no luck...so maybe some of you have not seen this.

To do CRW ...I think you need a sense of humour...a some running shoes...on kinda loose.

There are many designs if straps, the ones i use everyone had a means to cutaway, everyone has at least 2 knives and we dont bring it down low and are briefed on how to transition back to side by side as well.  The first thing we do when fanned out into downplane is make sure cutaways are accessible.

The straps allow us to hold it for long periods which having to physically hold formation together and allows quicker / easier transitioN

ps we use crw canopies only so no microlines.

raw dawgs crew  

https://www.rawdogscrw.com/

On 7/5/2019 at 8:54 PM, IJskonijn said:

Be careful if you venture there. Those things are nicknamed "Death Straps". There's differing opinions on whether that nickname is deserved or not, but such straps do add risk to a skydive in ways that are not readily apparent, so always keep thinking critically. My advice would be to seek out someone who is experienced in parabatics jumps with and without such straps, and jump/talk with them extensively. And because of their perceived risks, people are more likely to talk construction and dimensions when in-person rather than via the internet with someone far away.

Point of order: 

 A Death strap is something used by riggers when packing reserve canopies for a racer type harness, where the strap is put around the reserve to make a "molar" shape to fit into the container nicely. If the rigger forgets to remove the strap, the result is certain death if the jumper deploys his reserve parachute. Racers are a bitch to pack without one. 

 What you use to attach to each other in a down plane should be called something else, not a death strap, although impacting in a down plane is definitely unhealthy enough to result in death. I personally think tying yourselves together to do a down plane is a dumb idea, but thats just me. It pays to remember Murphys law. 

 Call it something else, but riggers already have that terminology patented. 

 Hiding a riggers death strap after he's finished packing a reserve WILL get you punched.

On 3/5/2024 at 10:02 AM, faulknerwn said:

I have never heard a molar strap called a death strap before, but I also haven't seen one used in years.  And I find Racers the easiest reserve to pack and I have never used one of those straps.  

I know CRW dogs have been referring to their downplane straps as death straps since the early-to-mid 90's at least. 

 

 

 

 Maybe you need to get out more....;-)

First off the Canadian Army Parachute Demonstration Team (aka. Skyhawks) did a 4-way down-plane without straps. They just built a pair of two-ways, then dove them. The pair of 170s were above and docked on the pair wearing 190 canopies. They held the formation for 20 seconds or so.

Amazing how a canopy formation thread drifts onto the subject of packing Racer reserves. The under-lying problem was packing with the minimum of canopy volume between the two closing loops ... er ... under the pilot-chute. A molar-strap helps minimize the amount of volume in the middle.

Since I always use my molar=strap in the last stage of closing, I never lost it. Hint: I route the molar-strap through an old B-12 snap and tie the pull-up cord to the hook. I use that instead of a crank. I can count on one hand the number of times that I have used a crank, Hint: I have not used a crank in this century.

Fortunately, later versions of Racers have more volume towards the bottom end of the container 0 to make more room for the Cypres battery box, so you can pack with the center-cell between the battery-box and lower closing loop.

A final point about packing Racers: I cannot count high enough to use the factory method, so I had to invent a simplified tool before I was comfortable packing Racers with square reserves, Cypres, etc. My tool is an adjustable version of the soft bodkin. It gets installed on the ripcord side early in the pack-job and is routed up through all the grommets, cutters, etc. I also finger-trapped 2 pull-up cords to the soft bodkins, further reducing tool-count.