buying new h/c. RI or UPT, can't decide.

  Welp, I dun narrowed it on down to a Curv or a Vector.  I'm wondering: is it just pure personal preference, or are there any glaring differences between the two? Mojo seems on par with Skyhook now, so there's that. RI and UPT both have solid reps, both rigs are TSO compliant, both are top notch and so on. But, when I google reviews on these two there's just not a ton of info. Hence this post.

  I've read up and asked around but still feel like there's some knowledge/wisdom to be gleaned.

  How would you complete these sentences? (like, if you're bored and wanna help a brother out)

* Dude, get a Curv because they're_____and they've got superior______ 

* Broski, get a Vector because..."        "              "                "               "        "

* Check it out man, the real differences between the two are___________

* I'm a rigger and I say definitely get a________because_______

* I've jumped/owned both and___________________

* Fun fact: Bill B and Sandy R both have enormous__________and have been known to_______after some beverages

* Both are great, but Curv for_________and Vector for___________

Or make up your own sentences, it's all good. I'm just going straight up bonkers trying to figure this out. The $hit is expensive and I'll have to live with my decision for many years---it's like buying a car or house or something. I'm preaching to the choir, I know. I must choose...wisely...

Thanks for any and all advice/wisdom/suggestions

- Get a Vector because they have higher resale value

- Get a Vector because they have a MARD with Collins lanyard

- Get a Vector if you are fairly tall guy (hip rings on the laterals make the hip junction on the Curv too high IMO if you are on the tall end, and Curv does not have long versions of their containers)

- Get a Curv because they are IMO the top container innovators in the last 10-15 years (nobody else introduced anything new in a long long time -MARDs aside-)

- Get a Curv because of the slimmer profile (due to the superior closing tabs) and naturally tighter fit (due to the bio curv)

- Get a Curv if you like it more and the lack of collins lanyard does not bother you

I jump a Curv now, I have owned and jumped most other brands in the many years I've been around. I've always paid for my gear: never been sponsored. Vector, Jav, Wings, Mirage, even Reflex and others... 

The Curv is, by far, the most comfortable rig I've put on. By far. From new, to well used several years old now. Every other owner I know says the same thing. 

I'm 6'2 by the way, so I'm not sure I'd say Curvs arent good for taller folks.

3 hours ago, Remster said:

I jump a Curv now, I have owned and jumped most other brands in the many years I've been around. I've always paid for my gear: never been sponsored. Vector, Jav, Wings, Mirage, even Reflex and others... 

The Curv is, by far, the most comfortable rig I've put on. By far. From new, to well used several years old now. Every other owner I know says the same thing. 

I'm 6'2 by the way, so I'm not sure I'd say Curvs arent good for taller folks.

 

Concur. I've been an RI jumper for 35 years.

Both of these rigs are top-shelf and have similar features and options, but the Curv is the only rig I've ever put on my back that I can honestly say is comfortable. It's amazingly comfortable. The bio-curv and especially the bio-yoke make the rig fit and feel like no other.

Be advised that a lot of folks who buy a Curv say it's too small when they first put in on, but it's not. It's just that it actually fits the body correctly. These same people "get it" after putting a few jumps on their new rig.

It seems like Curv owners rave about the fit/comfort factor. No surprise there! What about pin and riser protection? Are they FF, WS friendly? Do they age well? 

Are Vectors actually UNcomfortable? I think Ive jumped one once or twice, don't remember comfort level--wasn't custom made to my body anyways. 

Does the PC actually sit higher on a Curv?

Disclaimer: I neither own nor have ever jumped either a Vector or a Curv.

Everything I've heard about the Curv is that it's the most comfortable rig on the market.

However, before the Curv came out, the Vector was considered the most comfortable. 

Both were designed by true legends of the sport. 
Both are made by long time manufacturers.

Both have all the modern 'bells & whistles'. Even though the Vector is essentially a Wonderhog with updates (this is an observation, not a criticism - Bill got it right the first time). 

Both are excellent rigs and will serve you well for a long time.

Neither would be a 'bad' choice. 
Don't overthink it. 

One consideration is which one your rigger is more familiar and comfortable with. 

On 9/4/2020 at 6:40 PM, Remster said:

I'm 6'2 by the way, so I'm not sure I'd say Curvs arent good for taller folks.

Just to clarify my previous statement: I am not saying Curvs aren't good for taller folks, just that IMO, at least on paper, they are not catered to these jumpers. To elaborate a bit more:

- The lack of long version of the containers means that -unless it is compensated somehow*- the PC will sit higher on the back. If you are flexible enough that is not an issue, but that's something that everyone needs to evaluate for themselves. Wingsuiters, specially the ones with big suits and long bodies, tend to want long versions, to reach the PC easier and to minimize the chances of the wingsuit fabric getting on the way.

- The hip ring junction is far higher than on vectors or javelins. Depending on the length of your body, it means that this will be more or less aligned with your hip articulation. The design of the curv (or unisys harness in mirage, or Infinity) probably helps in keeping the leg straps more "in check" and prevents them from moving too far down the legs, and it is probably pretty comfortable, but there is a limit as to how aligned it can be with your hip articulation, since the lateral will be much higher on taller folks than on shorter ones, and that limit can impact flexibility a little bit. You can check, with your rig on, if when you move your leg up or sit in your harness, the leg straps slide on the ring or of the whole webbing moves and there is no slide on the ring. This might not be enough to be uncomfortable, but it is there. I think this is one of the reasons why Mirage offers both style of hip junctions on their G4s.

* This "compensation", if it exists, would need to lower the container without putting the 3 rings too far high, so it needs to be longer on the shoulder area, which will mean longer riser covers, which I guess could look awkward or be more prone to problems. The container would also look awkward hanging so much down the back. This is just speculation on my end, I have never seen a curv done for a tall guy, side by side with a curv for a regular guy, so I can't really make a statement out of this.

That's why online, and paper shopping only goes so far.

I based my comments on actual fit. My 6'4" teammate agrees too... 

I like Curvs, and I like Sunpath too. But with Sunpath taking over RI the future of the product is a little unclear. For that reason only if it was a coin toss between a Vector and a Curv, well, I would go with the Vector. But with that said, who knows what can happen with any of these companies that seem large to us, but really are not when their leaders leave.

I am actually in exactly the same boat right now.  I have decided on the Curv for a few reasons:

1: everyone i have talked to that owns a curv (except for 1 person) says it is the most comfortable rig to wear in the plane and under canopy.  comfort is important to me as i am not old, but i am also not a spring chicken anymore. the one person that disagreed said it was just as comfortable any any other rig he has owned. 

2 all major brands are TSOd ... so "safety" doesnt really factor for me as they should all be on par with one another.

3 I like the MOJO design better than the skyhook. 

4 i love lumbar support ... and the bio curv gives me that (from trying it on, havent jumped one)

5 all the bells and whistles and add-ons put it about 10% cheaper than a comparably equipped vector.  money matters to me, the container will be the only "new" part of my rig. it comes stock with a lot of options that are add-ons for most other manufacturers.

6 my dropzone is a mirage and vector DZ and i like pissing in the wind. 

7 i like their coloring options better ... 

8 the curv has dynamic corners as standard

9 i really like the idea behind their low profile flaps and their stowage flap to help position the hackey

10 the hip rings sit exactly on my hip articulation point .... which is kind of the ... point. 

keep in mind that from what others have told me, and from my own experience wearing a curv in person, the cut away and reserve handles seem a bit smaller than other manufacturers.  I have yet to hear of anyone wishing their EP handles were smaller while in the middle of a high speed spinning malfunction at 1800 ft.  just FWIW

Curv for me, Broseidon king of the brocean. 

20 hours ago, Remster said:

That's why online, and paper shopping only goes so far.

I based my comments on actual fit. My 6'4" teammate agrees too... 

You said that your curv is the most comfortable rig you've ever had. I never contradicted that statement. I am not sure what your point is. If you think my reasoning is wrong, and have the time, please correct it.

1 hour ago, Deimian said:

You said that your curv is the most comfortable rig you've ever had. I never contradicted that statement. I am not sure what your point is. If you think my reasoning is wrong, and have the time, please correct it.

You obviously spent a lot of time looking at the designs. All I am saying is what my personal experience has been with wearing multiple brands rigs. We can talk about ring placement, geometry and such for days, what matters is actual comfort IMO.

Personally, I like the mojo mard more than the skyhook, so that would get my vote. That's the biggest difference between them in my opinion, but I also got a mirage because I like their mard the best of the bunch.

I own a Curv 1.0 2015 and jumped a friend's Vector 2017 (no chest ring though) with the same canopy in it

Hands down comfort goes to the Curv.

• The bio yoke, and the curve of the container makes it very comfortable to wear. I hated the way the Vector padding would put pressure between my scapula.
• Under canopy, the Vector leg straps were not as comfy as the Curv for me. It feels that the Curv is able to spread the load on a larger surface than the Vector can. 
• The way the excess leg strap are stored is more comfortable compare to the Vector when walking.

I like the look of the Vector better. On the Curv 1.0 there is a lot of waviness from the side panels around the reserve tray. There is no internal riser cover on mine but it's been fixed with the 2.0

My rigger doesn't like packing the Mojo because of the intricate steps to route the RSL lanyard and all the precise folds required for the reserve bridle. It could be because he's more used to the Skyhook and I'm the only one with a Mojo. I honestly like the design of the Mojo better, I feel there's less chance of misrouting and disconnecting but I'm not the one packing it.

Both are great, but Curv for comfort and Vector to fit in the herd

People started buying Curv at my DZ after seeing mine and when the time is right to order another container, it will be a Curv for sure

1 hour ago, Remster said:

You obviously spent a lot of time looking at the designs. All I am saying is what my personal experience has been with wearing multiple brands rigs. We can talk about ring placement, geometry and such for days, what matters is actual comfort IMO.

Of course, we can agree on that. But comfort is subjective and varies from person to person. The points I made regarding taller folks are irrelevant if you are flexible enough to reach further up (I had a shoulder injury that kept on the ground for a few months because I couldn't reach my PC, so I have that more present than most) or if your disciplines do not involve using a lot the hip articulation.

At the end of the day, YMMV.

23 hours ago, Deimian said:

Of course, we can agree on that. But comfort is subjective and varies from person to person. The points I made regarding taller folks are irrelevant if you are flexible enough to reach further up (I had a shoulder injury that kept on the ground for a few months because I couldn't reach my PC, so I have that more present than most) or if your disciplines do not involve using a lot the hip articulation.

 

At the end of the day, YMMV.

The Curv comes in 2 configurations - taller and slimmer or shorter and a bit thicker. Long torso types just need to order the taller one and reaching the p/c is not an issue. Typically that call is made at the factory, but if it's a potential issue just let them know your concerns and they will make sure you get the right one.

18 hours ago, chuckakers said:

The Curv comes in 2 configurations - taller and slimmer or shorter and a bit thicker. Long torso types just need to order the taller one and reaching the p/c is not an issue. Typically that call is made at the factory, but if it's a potential issue just let them know your concerns and they will make sure you get the right one.

That's very good info, I didn't know that! The volume chart website does not mention it at all: https://rigginginnovations.com/skydiving-containers/curv 

On 9/11/2020 at 4:51 AM, Deimian said:

That's very good info, I didn't know that! The volume chart website does not mention it at all: https://rigginginnovations.com/skydiving-containers/curv 

That may be because folks would order what they think is correct, but it may not be. I also don't believe the volume is altered. 

I think they use the customer's measurements to figure out which is better.

  Still haven't decided, leaning towards a Vector. Both are top-notch for sure.  

  I'm curious: why doesn't UPT have articulation/rings at the chest strap? Seems like every other manufacturer does. 

I think it is a "philosophical" question. Some people consider them a gimmick and unnecessary or even bad. I guess the people at UPT are some of those.

The only clear advantage I see for the chest articulation, is how much easier it becomes to do MLW shortening/lengthening/replacement. On the flip side, you have more "flexibility" in an area that probably should not be that flexible (the harness could move around more, and it would be easier for it to slide down your shoulders when you are in head down-ish)

I think they can be a great thing to have if you buy second hand and you are not sure of the fit of the harness on your body, but I would avoid them when buying a new harness.

There is so much engineering that has gone into the vector 3, to me its hands down the best rig on the market.  I think Infinity also has come up with a great Mards system.  I have had several different rigs over the years, but never a curv.  

The vector is made from cordura 500, not cordura 1000, so keep that in mind.  The lighter weight material makes the Vector have a more tailored, fitted look and feel.  However take care of it, because 1/2 the weight and thickness.

6 hours ago, rjklein4470 said:

There is so much engineering that has gone into the vector 3, to me its hands down the best rig on the market.  I think Infinity also has come up with a great Mards system.  I have had several different rigs over the years, but never a curv.  

The vector is made from cordura 500, not cordura 1000, so keep that in mind.  The lighter weight material makes the Vector have a more tailored, fitted look and feel.  However take care of it, because 1/2 the weight and thickness.

Hi 4470,

The Vector & the Infinity are the only two rigs that I know of that use 500d Cordura as standard.  However, both will build you a rig in the 1,000d Cordura if requested.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  IMO the Infinity MARD, when compared to the SkyHook, is a far simpler system; and just, if not more, reliable.