The Kansas City Skydiving Center, What Will Be The Affect?

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1.2 million is enough to support ONE big DZ. Yes the smaller DZ's will fold. Thats life they can either compete or fold.

The greater Bay Area supports 5 turbine DZs and one cessna DZ. It seems that the King Air/Carvan/Pac is the right size, the Otter is not so good.

Thanks for the refreshing post SwampGod. You brought in some productive ideas instead of what has largely been a list of counterpoints for everyone elses' counterpoints.

The thing that gets me about all the skydiving community of kc is the ignorance. Everyone is just wound up about this new dz "alright finally a turbine". The key word here is finally. Oh I'm sorry is this the first time a turbine has been brought to kc. No its not. What happened to the king air dolphin brought in. Oh thats right everyone jumped it for 6 months then bailed. That plane cost a fraction of that caravan and didn't need 17 to fill it. Oh but let me guess, this time it will be different, right? You all will support this one right off the bat. 7 days a week. No problem. It kills me that many believe this. Yea right, all most of you care about is yourselves, where you can jump the quickest, go the highest, and not lift a finger right. Thats how its always been. Everybody wants a big plane but nobody wants to contribute. Well to those that do plan on working at this new dz, good luck cause I have a feeling you won't have a job long. I could be wrong, we'll see.

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Oh thats right everyone jumped it for 6 months then bailed. That plane cost a fraction of that caravan and didn't need 17 to fill it.

you can fly a caravan with half the load of a king air for the same cost, it is a good choice in airplanes for a starter turbin DZ.

Interesting article:

http://www.democratmissourian.com/news1-021006.html

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Skydiving is source of controversy at aldermen meeting

By Shandi Duggins, Staff Reporter

Controversy, questions and accusations swirled at Monday’s Harrisonville Board of Aldermen meeting all involving the Kansas City Skydiving Center a couple wishes to operate out of the Lawrence Smith Memorial Airport.

Before the council was a resolution to lease space in the terminal building located at the airport to Paul and Joanna Eriksmoen to conduct their skydiving regulations.

Originally, the Eriksmoens were also requesting to establish a drop zone at the airport. This, however, has changed since the couple has since decided to purchase land adjacent to the airport for a drop zone.

Now, the Eriksmoens want to use the airport for takeoff and landing purposes. They also wish to lease the entire upper floor of the main hangar, area in the main hangar and access to the adjacent drop-zone site for a term of two years.

According to Harrisonville city administrator Dianna Wright, although the aldermen must vote on whether to approve the lease, city officials cannot control whether the center uses the airport for departures and landings, because it is a federally funded public airport.

Wright said because the airport is public, restrictions are not placed on who may or may not use the airport as long as the users follow Federal Aviation Administration operating procedures.

To restrict one party’s use of the airport or deny them access, could be the grounds for a lawsuit, Wright told the aldermen Monday.

According to the staff report, the airport committee and city staff have been discussing the skydiving issue for several months, as well as doing research into the regulations and laws regarding the the center. The airport committee has recommended the Harrisonville Board of
Aldermen move forward with consideration of the lease.

“By leasing them space, you have a relationship with the business,” Wright said.

Wright said by leasing the space, the city may apply accountability and parameters to the center to ensure insurance requirements are met and to ensure the center’s activities do not impede
LifeFlight, an emergency helicopter service which also operates out of the airport.

Included in the terms of the lease is a stipulation that items within the hangar may not interfere with operation and business of LifeFlight. The lease also states that the tenant must provide at least general liability insurance, third-party liability insurance and workers’ compensation or similar insurance.

The Kansas City Skydiving Center must also notify and receive prior approval from the landlord before a special event which would include 200 or more participants or an aircraft exceeding 12,500 pounds.

Several members of the board of aldermen requested that no action be taken on the resolution to lease space until more information could be learned.

Before the council discussed the issue of the lease, several members of the public came forth to raise concerns about the skydiving center. Aldermen, including Dennis Minich, said they wanted to know more before voting.

“It is a major question,” he said. “I don’t know if I want to rent them space.”

The Eriksmoens were present at the meeting. Joanna Eriksmoens reminded the aldermen the vote was not to allow skydiving.

“We will open April 1,” she said.

However, Joanna Eriksmoens said although the skydiving center would open regardless if the city leased the company space, the center would prefer to work with the city.

Some aldermen agreed.

“They’re going to open anyway,” Nancy Linthicum said. “I think it would be better with our blessing.”

Some of the issues causing concerns over the airport were listed in the city report, along with letters from concerned citizens.

These concerns about the center included a negative impact on LifeFlight, noise, debris on private property, jumpers landing on private property, parties and alcohol at the airport and impact to property value.

Some of these issues were also answered in the staff report, which stated it was the staff’s
understanding planes used for jump activity are not any noisier than current aircraft utilizing the airport; the city’s lease prohibits alcohol on airport property; third-party insurance to cover damage to private property will be maintained by the center; and a skydiver landing on private property is trespassing and the center will require participants to sign a document acknowledging this is prohibited.

The city has been working with LifeFlight to address concerns. However, according to a letter submitted by Chuck Walker, director of program operations, LifeFlight “does not endorse the skydiving center.”

“We believe it to be the wrong mix for the mission that we support,” Walker stated in his letter.
Members of the public were also allowed to voice their opinions on the center during the meeting.

Hellen Budinger voiced her support for the center saying it would “draw young and enthusiastic people to Harrisonville.”

Chris Hall, a safety and training adviser for the United Sates Parachute Association and the operator of a skydiving facility in Butler, expressed his concerns about the compatibility of the airport for a skydiving center, the Eriksmoens’ qualifications to operate a center and the city’s interpretation of FAA regulations, as well as statements made by Dianna Wright to The Democrat Missourian.

Hall said he had been in contact with the FAA and that the FAA had not been in contact with the city. Hall also said the FAA did not have final say in deciding if a skydiving center could be operated from the airport and that a safety inspection was not required by the FAA.

Wright responded by saying staff had been in contact with several FAA departments for the past several months and when the city was considering the drop zone, FAA regulations state that if the city denies or restricts the use of the airport, the applicant may appeal to the FAA regarding the determination. Staff’s report states that in all cases the FAA will make the final determination of the reasonableness of the airport owner’s restrictions or denials. If the FAA does not uphold the city’s restrictions, the city must either abide by the FAA decision or reimburse $1.5 million the city has received in federal grant money for airport improvements.

As for an FAA safety inspection, Wright has said that at the time of the statements, an inspection was being discussed, but the FAA has since decided not to conduct an inspection.

Tom Dolphin, operator of a skydiving center at Lexington Memorial Airport, raised similar concerns as to the use of the airport for skydiving. He encouraged the council to table its decision until they received more information on issues such as liability insurance, staff, parking, maintenance and fuel transportation.

“It’s not just as simple as having a plane and jumping out of it,” he said. “There’s much more involved here you (aldermen) need to be aware of.”

Alderman Barbara Walters said one issue she would like clarification on was the source of dissension. Was opposition for the skydiving school motivated by safety concerns or those with a personal stake in the issue, she questioned.

Wright suggested bringing in an unbiased third party expert to answer the council’s questions. Wright said this work session is planned to take place before the next city council meeting Feb. 20.
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(I have no interest in this situation - this story came up on my news page and I remembered seeing this thread - posted here just as additional information)

A quick check of population of KC shows the population closer to 2 million when you count the KS and MO sides. There are also several towns/cities within reasonable driving distance that would boost the numbers even higher. There are cities about the same size that support multiple turbine DZs. Salt Lake comes to mind. I'm not sure why KC has trouble supporting a turbine DZ. I think SDKC and MRVS will have serious impacts from this DZ opening. I guess we'll see.

it looks like the nearby DZOs are suddenly trying to tell this airport what to do with the new skydive operation.
they are scared of competition i guess.

this makes me glad that my DZ is far enough away and has a good enough base of jumpers that this new DZ won't affect us much... except when we go down to a boogie there

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Well said.I wish Atlanta would figure this out.Oh course we have some people down here that would never play right.


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Atlanta has someone who doesn’t play fair? Nooo!

One thing I took from the whole Skyride thing is just how affective advertising and the internet can be. I wouldn’t suggest that anyone in KC “fire up a boiler room”, but paid search ads are honestly relatively cheep. Are paid search ads affective? I’d say that Ben and Cary have proven that they will make your phone ring, after that it’s more about being good to the customer, and selling them. The Customer does not for the most part know the difference between a Cessna 182, and 208 (unless they talk to the “208 guy” first).

Advertising does work! I increased my student traffic by 25% by investing in a little advertising. My opinion is that the KC market could generate 2,000 first jump students a year, if the word got out (better). I don’t know exactly how it is in KC, but given an elevator with 10 random people, 1 or 2 will have made a skydive, half know it’s available, and the other half will say “I didn’t even know you could do that here”.

Martin
Air Capital Drop Zone

Google adwords can be very useful, and you pay based on how often people click on the ads. Worth looking into.

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Google adwords can be very useful, and you pay based on how often people click on the ads. Worth looking into.

Google is Google, Yahoo Search Marketing is just about every other search engine out there. Between the two services you cover it all.

Just for fun...

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I destroy my enemy when I make him my friend. Abraham Lincoln
There is no little enemy. •Benjamin Franklin
The friend of my enemy is my enemy. •Anonymous
With friends like this, who needs enemies? •Henny Youngman
He hasn't an enemy in the world - but all his friends hate him. •Eddie Cantor
Love your enemies just in case your friends turn out to be a bunch of bastards. •R A Dickson
There is no stronger bond of friendship than a mutual enemy. •Frankfort Moore
Talk well of your friends and of your enemies say nothing. •Proverb
Remember, to them it is us who are the enemy. •N. F. Simpson
In my life, I have prayed but one prayer: oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it.

Can’t we all just get along? Rodney King

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all most of you care about is yourselves, where you can jump the quickest, go the highest, and not lift a finger

What a concept. It called commerce, and thats what the DZ is there for. Jumpers pay for a service.

I know that many jumpers go above and beyond,and will pitch in at the DZ to help things run smoothly, or improve the facility. I applaud their efforts.

However, when the shit hits the fan, and the business isn't working, the DZO will shut down, and look for another way to put food on his table. Regardless of his 'friends' and the work they have doen, the guy has to eat, and he buys his dinner with the money that jumpers pay for the service he provides.

I have a job, and if i want to get paid, I have to deliver a service. If someone can offer a better service, or at a lower price, I don't get paid.

If you don't take care of your customers, someoen else will. Welcome to America.

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What happened to the king air dolphin brought in. Oh thats right everyone jumped it for 6 months then bailed. That plane cost a fraction of that caravan and didn't need 17 to fill it.

A Caravan is cheaper to fly than a KA and the MX is less due to only one engine. That means less fuel burn and less for parts. PLUS a Caravan is cheaper to insure since it has fixed gear.

A Caravan is a better choice for a small turbine DZ.

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this time it will be different, right?

Did they have people like you dooming it from the start last time? You have a major roll in this DZ working of falling flat.

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Yea right, all most of you care about is yourselves, where you can jump the quickest, go the highest, and not lift a finger right. Thats how its always been. Everybody wants a big plane but nobody wants to contribute.

Are the jumps at your DZ free? Why should I have to work all week and then pay for my jumps AND work at the DZ? Do you make your tandem students clean the toilets?

You must be a real barrel of laughs to be around.

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Alderman Barbara Walters said one issue she would like clarification on was the source of dissension. Was opposition for the skydiving school motivated by safety concerns or those with a personal stake in the issue, she questioned.

This pretty much clears up the doubt people had that these DZOs would stand up and say these things. They made their remarks, and a third party, with no interest in the local DZ politics suspected their intentions to be less that honorable.

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Tom Dolphin, operator of a skydiving center at Lexington Memorial Airport, raised similar concerns

“It’s not just as simple as having a plane and jumping out of it,” he said. “There’s much more involved here you (aldermen) need to be aware of.”

This seems a little off to me. If running a DZ is so hard, and the new DZO is so underqualified, why go through all the effort to try and keep him down. Let him try, and have the insurmountable curcumstances get the better of him.

It's like this, if I stood up and declared that I would compete with NASA, and get a man back on the moon, I don't think NASA would out any effort into derailing my undertaking.

This DZO however seems to be doing everything he can prevent the compettion from succeeding. It shows he believes the new DZ to be a credible threat.

The more I think about this issue, it really bugs me. The current DZOs are using local politics and slightly related federal issues to prevent a new guy from starting a business.

This is on par with unscroupulous laywers using loopholes to free guilty clients, or big busness using power and influence to sway lawmakers into protecting the interests of said big business.

What the fuck ever happened to good old competition? Presenting a better product or better value, and succeding based on the merits of your business?

I run a business that has no federal ties, and you don't need a city counsel meeting to start. I have competition, and the only defence I have to them is TO DO A BETTER JOB THAN THEM. What ever happend to that?

This whole thing is rediculous. These DZOs are showing their wekness, and true colors with their actions here. Stand up, be a man, and let the guy start his business. Let him take his shot, just like you have the oppertunity to do so.

This legal undermining is backhanded and shady. This is a snapshot of one of the problems in this country. Competition keeps business strong and lean. it makes you work for every inch you gain over your competitors. What these guys are doing is the equivialant of letting the air out of a guys tires before a race.

Man up, and race the guy fair and square. This pussy shit really knocks you down the level of ambulance chasing lawyers, and the entire executive line-up from ENRON.

Welcome to America.

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The more I think about this issue, it really bugs me. The current DZOs are using local politics and slightly related federal issues to prevent a new guy from starting a business.

Hummm? Who died and made you director of Ethics?

This is on par with unscroupulous laywers using loopholes to free guilty clients, or big busness using power and influence to sway lawmakers into protecting the interests of said big business.

As said it is a free market, It would appear that these DZO's than have the same right to voice their opinion as this other person has a right to open a new DZ, Were not deing Biased are we Dave?

What the fuck ever happened to good old competition? Presenting a better product or better value, and succeding based on the merits of your business?

Possible the birth, and entry into our society of persons like you Dave!

I run a business that has no federal ties, and you don't need a city counsel meeting to start. I have competition, and the only defence I have to them is TO DO A BETTER JOB THAN THEM. What ever happend to that?

Apprently you are not very busy at your claimed business? From the posts you seem to spend much of your time surfing the web! "Question" you find any new porn? or are you still looking at the same old stuff?

This whole thing is rediculous. These DZOs are showing their wekness, and true colors with their actions here. Stand up, be a man, and let the guy start his business. Let him take his shot, just like you have the oppertunity to do so.

another question Dave! What do you really know about this situation? Are you basing this mindless dribble on the supposed facts offered by skydivers? These are the same people who tell you "the checks in the mail" and " I won't cum in your mouth!" If you are buying all of the shit posted here I would like to sell you some ocean front property in Kansas so when the new DZ opens you can do beach jumps!

This legal undermining is backhanded and shady. This is a snapshot of one of the problems in this country. Competition keeps business strong and lean. it makes you work for every inch you gain over your competitors. What these guys are doing is the equivialant of letting the air out of a guys tires before a race.

How do you know what amount of work these guy put into, or have put into, their DZ"s? A lot of speculation on your part. Let's say I decide to start a business like yours, surfing the net, and I have a much faster connection and bigger ballson computer than you, and I offer the surf at a lower price, would that get your panties twisted up Dave?

Man up, and race the guy fair and square. This pussy shit really knocks you down the level of ambulance chasing lawyers, and the entire executive line-up from ENRON.

Dave, before you make a statement like this, based on partial information provided to you by biased skydivers, you might find that if you look in the mirror the face you see looks to the rest of us, the same as an attorney or Enron Exec. Be very carful what you say! It proves what company you keep! By the way how long have you ran Enron of Ohio?

Welcome to America.

And after reading some of the posts left by simpletons like you, I wonder why more people don't move to Canada. Dave do yourself and the rest of us a favor, only post on what you can prove are true facts, and not on emotional, biased, partial truths and hear-say information. It will make you appear to be much more intelligent.

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so, what are the facts then?

*chuckling about Hue-janus* ...I am no longer posting because no one wants to see the facts, they only want to see turbine drop zones and anything standing in the way (hostile neighbors, and soon to be forced out lifeflight) as political roadblocks the KC dz's unfairly conjured up. The truth and the facts will be known soon enough and those that have posted false information will be exposed. I will continue to watch this thread and laugh at the direction these posts have taken, now that its a bunch of guys from out of state "trolling" the forums looking to spew opinions (educated or not). I would have to disagree on the old saying "opinions are like *ssholes, everybodies got 'em" Unless these guys have numerous *ssholes!

Best of luck all, I might move to Canada...I hear the strip clubs are killer!

"only post on what you can prove are true facts, and not on emotional, biased, partial truths and hear-say information. It will make you appear to be much more intelligent."

Do you know for fact that Dave has an unsecessfull business based on surfing the net, or was that based on emotion by your part?
I know I will get flamed for that statement by you but I realized it before I posted it.. so Flame away of you want.

Joe

It is very apparent where peoples aliances are with this situation. There is no doubt in my mind who those of you who are afraid to reveal your real name are in association with. I am from the KC area so don't give me the bullshit about non-locals keep your mouth shut. I have no home dropzone so I am looking at this with no dzo's demanding my loyality. Just the facts, I can venture to guess the reason people don't want to see your facts because you are not giving unbias facts. Here's an example

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(hostile neighbors, and soon to be forced out lifeflight)

You're opinions are not "just the facts" so quit claiming to be so. You've also threatened to quit posting on this thread multiple times over... what brings you back again?

I am excited to see the outcome of this dz. I was very saddened when I moved to KC to see the skydiving politics as they are. Fun jumpers travel for hours because of the politics of the area. Frankly every single dz in this city lacks and I am glad to see a new one come in and take up the slack. Hopefully this one will stand above the petty crap that so many talk about in hushed voices. The reality is that they will open April 1 (as stated in the minutes) regardless of people's opinions on hinderance to Lifeflight, the surrounding areas, and everything else. It is about good competition which is exactly what is needed so everyone can step up to the plate and improve. It was stated above that it truly does show the character of the dzo's using such tactics because of fear the new guy just might be better.

So what are the facts?***

Who knows? You sure will not find them here with posts from people with a personal interest in this event! Not my job to know!
But it is my job to respect the true fact that I am not invovled, and that what is posted is usually just a color or 2 off of shit! I find this intertaining, at best!

Skydivers become very emotional when they feel that they are wronged or deproved in some way from something that they want. This is not a bad thing, but unfortunately they conduct themselves and make statements like a bunch of highschool bitches!

Sure these guys are having a major pissing contest! Question! Is it really your business or mine? I think not!, it goes back to the old green grass theory. If you are real busy cutting your own grass you don't have the fucking time to wonder about the color of the grass across the fence!

If this guy starts this DZ or not, what the fuck does it mean to you and I, mabe a turbine jump if we ever find a reason to go to Kansas City?

Lets face the facts we are not involved, our opinions don't mean or effect shit! and I'am sure that those people involved in this fight could give a big shit what we think! BUT! there is one fact Kansas City is the home of Sun Flowers and Sonabitches!, and I haven't read a post from a Kansas City Sunflower Yet!

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And after reading some of the posts left by simpletons like you, I wonder why more people don't move to Canada. Dave do yourself and the rest of us a favor, only post on what you can prove are true facts

I think this thread needs a few more anonymous posters. Not only do they seem to be the ones who have all the facts, but they display such an admirable level of courage by standing up in front of the whole world in a public forum and knocking down the opinions of others who disagree with them.

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So what are the facts?***

"Who knows? You sure will not find them here with posts from people with a personal interest in this event! Not my job to know!
But it is my job to respect the true fact that I am not invovled"


You became involved when you posted here, so whats your personall intrest in this? It's obvious that you have something to say as you registerd just to make this post and you hide behind a false name.. come on Hue-Anus.. are you related to Sofa King or Dixie Wrecked?



"BUT! there is one fact Kansas City is the home of Sun Flowers and Sonabitches!, and I haven't read a post from a Kansas City Sunflower Yet!"

Wow that's a bold comment.. the people who you defended in earlier post are not sunflowers?

Joe

www.greenboxphotography.com

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I’m a sunflower, or at least have em on my underwear (or was that Sponge Bob, I’ll check and get back to you).

I knew this would be a hot topic when I started the thread. I’ve had several people ask my motives for starting it. Honestly (I understand you’ll question my honesty, but oh well), I was curious what was being said here on this topic, and found nothing, so I started a thread.

I do find it interesting how many people have registered, or registered under an anonymous name just to post in this thread. It’s also my opinion now that I’ve seen the level of comments here, that the whole thread is worthless. Nobody directly involved is going to put up anything pertinent here, they have nothing at all to gain, and what they’ve written becomes a matter of record that could be used at some point in the future (either for good or evil).

Now, who cried when they shot ol yeller?

Martin

Off topic but martin I think those where sponge bob undies you had on at couch freaks during the best dressed man contest.

When i asked you thru PM what your take was on this I was not questioning your honesty in anyway as you have nothing to loose in this..


Like you I find it intresting in how many fake posters have come into this fourm.
Joe