catfishhunter 2 #1 May 3, 2011 How many others read between the lines. Looks like the FAA is getting tired of Skydivers murdering other skydivers... MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #2 May 3, 2011 Post it, not everyone gets parachutist.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #3 May 3, 2011 QuoteHow many others read between the lines. Looks like the FAA is getting tired of Skydivers murdering other skydivers... I thought it was very friendly and polite, but it did have a "shot across our bow" feel to it.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #4 May 3, 2011 QuoteQuoteHow many others read between the lines. Looks like the FAA is getting tired of Skydivers murdering other skydivers... I thought it was very friendly and polite, but it did have a "shot across our bow" feel to it. I thought it was a great letter but he made it pretty clear that we now have his full attention, at least that is how I read it. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #5 May 3, 2011 Here's the text of the article: A Message from FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt I still remember the first time I flew skydivers over Homestead, Florida. I was 18 years old-working weekends as an instrument flight instructor and jump pilot-eager to build all the hours I could. I flew a Cessna 170B, and sometimes, after the jumpers exited, I would bank a wide circle and watch them out of the plane's open doorway. I loved their acrobatic movements as they sped downward. It was quite a sight. Those were the days when jumpers used round parachutes and jumped from lower altitudes of about 4,500 to 7,500 feet. I flew static-line jumpers too-in the days before tandem jumps. After landing, I remember watching the jumpers repack their chutes meticulously. I was impressed with their level of professionalism. These many years later, as Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA),. I appreciate even more how much the aviation industry depends on all of us taking a professional attitude toward our work and even our leisure aviation activities. We work and play in a business where there is simply no room for error. We are well-trained and we know how to do our jobs. But we can never become complacent. It may be hard or impossible to be as nervous and cautious on the 1,000th jump as on the first. That's where taking a professional attitude toward what we do overcomes the tendency to become too relaxed. In March, the United States Parachute Association celebrated Safety Day, and I applaud the effort. I also applaud the renewed focus on canopy safety. We are working in an industry that is constantly changing and evolving, requiring us to improve our skills to stay current. The FAA is issuing an updated Sport Parachuting Advisory Circular this spring, with updated best practices for jump pilots and jumpers alike. For those who are just starting out, the circular will be a learning tool. And we all have to learn. I remember one of the first times I flew jumpers, I wasn't expecting the jolt when the skydiver exited the plane. I learned that it takes a lot of rudder to compensate for someone holding onto the strut. I also learned the importance of calculating the winds to determine the exit point to land safely at the drop zone. Back then, skydivers usually tossed a wind streamer out of the plane to calculate the winds and exit point. Their round parachutes had minimal steering, so determining the correct exit point was crucial. Nowadays, jump pilots and skydivers rely more on GPS and weather reports to calculate the exit point. The learning curve has shifted to maneuvering the more sophisticated ram-air parachutes. The newer parachutes have greater flight capabilities, and it's necessary to handle them correctly to land safely. We all need to learn new skills. And when we have done things a thousand times, we need to look at tasks with fresh eyes. Adhering to procedures helps prevent complacency. The FAA safety circular will remind jump pilots that skydivers must be strapped in properly for takeoff. The circular also will outline the training and testing that jump pilots should complete and will provide best practices for using equipment. Parachuting has grown so much in the 45 years since I flew jumpers. The 33,000 members of USPA made 3 million jumps last year at 250 centers across the country. We want to make sure that every single one of these jumps is an exhilarating experience that inspires us to keep going, to keep learning and to sail headlong into the future of this awesome sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #6 May 3, 2011 QuoteI thought it was a great letter but he made it pretty clear that we now have his full attention, at least that is how I read it. That's also what I meant. I want to add to this. I think we've had a rash of incidents that involved varying levels of negligence. We don't have rules in place to define those deemed responsible as criminals or murderers and I think using that term is a little over the top. We have had some actual murders but I know that's not what you are talking about. Our fatalities per number of jumps has decreased over the years. That's mostly because gear and training have improved over the years. What's left in the filter is attitude (what IMO he's calling professionalism)Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #7 May 4, 2011 Thanks John.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marisan 0 #8 May 4, 2011 Told you so! You now have two choices! 1/ Figure out how to stop this carnage (And quickly) 2/ Start saving up to buy a nice BIG Soft Canopy. My money's on number two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #9 May 4, 2011 QuoteThanks John. You're welcome. I just scanned the page into a digital image file, then unleashed some software I have called IRIS which does character recognition, and turns the digital image verbiage into a text file. Then it's just a cut-and-paste job. Voila! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuai43 7 #10 May 4, 2011 QuoteHow many others read between the lines. Looks like the FAA is getting tired of Skydivers murdering other skydivers... Perhaps your take is just a bit inflammatory? I didn't get that message from his letter, but rather an urge for more caution.Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #11 May 4, 2011 Thanks John. QuoteI still remember the first time I flew skydivers over Homestead, Florida. He is letting us know he knows more about skydiving than wen might think he does. QuoteI was impressed with their level of professionalism. He thinks our recent history does not show that. QuoteThat's where taking a professional attitude toward what we do overcomes the tendency to become too relaxed. The FAA is issuing an updated Sport Parachuting Advisory Circular this spring, with updated best practices for jump pilots and jumpers alike. . The learning curve has shifted to maneuvering the more sophisticated ram-air parachutes. The newer parachutes have greater flight capabilities, and it's necessary to handle them correctly to land safely. We all need to learn new skills. And when we have done things a thousand times, we need to look at tasks with fresh eyes. Adhering to procedures helps prevent complacency. This guy is good. He is letting us know that we are on his radar and if we don’t do something he will. This is just my read on it for what its worth. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 1 #12 May 4, 2011 QuoteHe is letting us know that we are on his radar and if we don’t do something he will. This is just my read on it for what its worth. I think your read on it is probably correct. IMO, this only reinforces the cautionary message that state attorneys general and county DAs - most of whom are elected, and look for opportunities to score points for "toughness" - have eyes and ears, too. If we don't think so, we're kidding ourselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #13 May 4, 2011 That pretty much sums it up.... However there are other winds of change blowing in upper levels of FAA. He noted on the pending release of AC 105.2 D. And on the airport access side things , there is a study currently on going and the new 105 address some of that, I would be surprised to see the new ac 105 out before the study ends. In other words..... there are many high ranking FAA eyes looking at skydiving right now for a number of reasons, some good, some bad.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #14 May 4, 2011 I don't know - the only thing I saw that might vaguely address skydiving is "will provide best practices for using equipment." I think reading into it that we are on somebody's radar for enforcement is hopeful thinking from all those who are tired of seeing people kill themselves and others. An advisory circular describing 'best practices' carrys no weight of enforcement, but it is a step forward. If the best practice includes wing loading charts based on experience, or if it enumerates rules for turns below 1000' we might be going somewhere. I don't suspect anything like that will be in best practices for using equipment. I have never been a proponent of getting the FAA more involved in our sport, but I am starting to rethink my stance. For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #15 May 4, 2011 QuoteAn advisory circular describing 'best practices' carrys no weight of enforcement Well see I think you got it all wrong here: An AC is to advise you because you failed to already understand what the FAA was saying in an FAR, so they (FAA) issue an advisory circular in more direct wording to tell you what the fuck they (FAA) expect you to be doing.... and should you not heed their advisory, your not heeding/abiding by the FAR's then and there for they can bust you. Don't think I'm right, waltz on down to your local FSDO and request to read in front of them (FAA) an AC like 105.2c and then go across the street and then violate it in front of them and watch what happens...you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #16 May 4, 2011 I completely agree that AC's can carry weight when worded correctly, but 'best practice' is just advice. Since you are quoting 105.2c, consider the difference between: All prospective skydivers are urged to receive a physical examination prior to their first jump. The physician should be informed of the purpose of the examination. and: A certificated parachute rigger or the person making the jump must have packed the main parachute within 120 days before the date of its use. One is enforceable, the other is not. For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dutton 0 #17 May 4, 2011 With the rapid growth of tandem skydiving in its current form, and its perception as a one-time carnival ride profit generator for DZ's- as opposed to an instructional method for skydivers- the tax paying public appears to be much more exposed to risk. When the public is exposed to risk, the .gov steps in. I don't think the FAA cares when we kill each other, but when we kill normal people, they get upset. That being said, at least he has some experience on a DZ.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #18 May 4, 2011 On Saturday the FAA sent 4 field reps. to Elsinore. Two national, one regional and one local. They were there for several hours and the word I got was they went to Perris immediately afterwards. Raise your hand if you think it can’t happen. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #19 May 4, 2011 QuoteHow many others read between the lines. Looks like the FAA is getting tired of Skydivers murdering other skydivers... Well said. Shape up people, and shape up the people around you. Make sure your DZO's see this. If we don't, then it will be done for us.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #20 May 4, 2011 I don't know - the only thing I saw that might vaguely address skydiving is "will provide best practices for using equipment." I think reading into it that we are on somebody's radar for enforcement is hopeful thinking from all those who are tired of seeing people kill themselves and others. Quote Yeah, A fed that just happens to be rather familiar with skydiving, just happens to write a letter to our governing organization, that just happens to mention complacency and lack of skills regarding flying newer parachutes...sure that happens all the time! In the corporate world this is a 'cold coffee with sugar', as in a well worded, beatin' around the bush, shot across the bow... wake up call. If you have an office on mahogany row and you get one of these, you kick some ass & start updating your resume. It's a 'if he's smart enough to read between the lines we'll see immediate action toward improvement...If he's NOT smart enough to get the gist, we'll step in, dump his ass and do his job for him'. ~We just got our one warning, if you don't thinks it real...wake up and smell the coffee! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #21 May 4, 2011 I received message asking for my 'translation' of the FAA letter ~ here's my take FWIW: A Message from FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt ~HEY ASSHOLES, ...Attention: Officer On Deck! I still remember the first time I flew skydivers over Homestead, Florida. I was 18 years old-working weekends as an instrument flight instructor and jump pilot-eager to build all the hours I could. I flew a Cessna 170B, and sometimes, after the jumpers exited, I would bank a wide circle and watch them out of the plane's open doorway. I loved their acrobatic movements as they sped downward. It was quite a sight. ~I've been in 'your' world, I'm not a complete Wuffo. Those were the days when jumpers used round parachutes and jumped from lower altitudes of about 4,500 to 7,500 feet. I flew static-line jumpers too-in the days before tandem jumps. After landing, I remember watching the jumpers repack their chutes meticulously. I was impressed with their level of professionalism. ~Packers?...REALLY?!...I remember when skydivers cared, and acted like it These many years later, as Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA),. ~I'm an old guy, stay off my lawn...I have power over you, don't put your balls in my vise I appreciate even more how much the aviation industry depends on all of us taking a professional attitude toward our work and even our leisure aviation activities. ~You guys are sticking out like a sore thumb to all of 'us' real aviation professionals We work and play in a business where there is simply no room for error. ~Just to remind you, because it appears this is something you've overlooked We are well-trained and we know how to do our jobs. But we can never become complacent. ~Obvious sugar coating, these are conflicting statements... about as subtle as a fryin' pan upside the melon It may be hard or impossible to be as nervous and cautious on the 1,000th jump as on the first. That's where taking a professional attitude toward what we do overcomes the tendency to become too relaxed. ~He uses the 'we' to sugar it up, It's kinda like tellin' your fat girlfriend that maybe 'WE' should go to the gym... REAL professionals are NOT complacent! In March, the United States Parachute Association celebrated Safety Day, and I applaud the effort. I also applaud the renewed focus on canopy safety. ~I'm watching you, finger on the pulse sort of thing We are working in an industry that is constantly changing and evolving, requiring us to improve our skills to stay current. ~Whatever you HAVE been doing is bullshit, and not working...get your ass in gear, like NOW! The FAA is issuing an updated Sport Parachuting Advisory Circular this spring, with updated best practices for jump pilots and jumpers alike. ~We use to focus mainly on the aircraft end of it, but since you guys can't seem to self-police...move on over and get outta the way. Maybe let us here at the FAA put a whole new spin on ~'Watch This' ~ for ya! For those who are just starting out, the circular will be a learning tool. And we all have to learn. ~More 'conflicting' statements- ...you guys act like you're ALL just starting out I remember one of the first times I flew jumpers, I wasn't expecting the jolt when the skydiver exited the plane. I learned that it takes a lot of rudder to compensate for someone holding onto the strut. I also learned the importance of calculating the winds to determine the exit point to land safely at the drop zone. Back then, skydivers usually tossed a wind streamer out of the plane to calculate the winds and exit point. Their round parachutes had minimal steering, so determining the correct exit point was crucial. Nowadays, jump pilots and skydivers rely more on GPS and weather reports to calculate the exit point. ~You guys can't even spot, and you're trying to fly advanced wings? - At least the old farts knew what they were doing The learning curve has shifted to maneuvering the more sophisticated ram-air parachutes. ~Ya'll really don't care about much else, it seems The newer parachutes have greater flight capabilities, and it's necessary to handle them correctly to land safely. ~If that's all ya care about- how the HELL come ya can't even do THAT right? We all need to learn new skills. ~I don't care how good you THINK you are skygod, ditch the ego & start doing it right And when we have done things a thousand times, we need to look at tasks with fresh eyes. ~Come up with a better way of doing this or we will! Your current way sucks and it kills people, we strongly discourage that stuff...ya really wanna see HOW we discourage it? Adhering to procedures helps prevent complacency. ~THIRD time I've fucking told you, get the hint yet? Where's my frying pan?! The FAA safety circular will remind jump pilots that skydivers must be strapped in properly for takeoff. ~we're all really enjoying all the no seat-belt -YouTube- shit being posted, thanks for the heads up guys, we though you knew who's boss. Here's yer sign! The circular also will outline the training and testing that jump pilots should complete and will provide best practices for using equipment. ~Yo...how about that civil settlement for 48 mil huh? Parachuting has grown so much in the 45 years since I flew jumpers. The 33,000 members of USPA made 3 million jumps last year at 250 centers across the country. ~ Kinda starting to look like ya'll have gotten too fat to carry your own water We want to make sure that every single one of these jumps is an exhilarating experience that inspires us to keep going, to keep learning and to sail headlong into the future of this awesome sport. ~What do ya say WE head to the gym ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #22 May 4, 2011 Well when you put it like that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 180 #23 May 4, 2011 That sums it up. 'Twardo. If you think the FAA isn't paying close attention, then you jumpers aren't paying attention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 149 #24 May 5, 2011 Nail. Head. Hit.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meux 0 #25 May 5, 2011 Nice thread, good discussion. I haven't seen a hot rod descend through traffic with a 270 since Saturday. I wasn't at the dz on Sunday. When can we start cleaning up our act? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites