What makes an experienced skydiver?

Quote

I am always amazed at how many experienced people with time in the sport land like absolute crap.

Hey Hydroguy.....I land like crap. I didnt always.
A crushed spine and an artificial hip will do that to you.
My friend Jan Davis landed like crap too. She had two artificial hips.....and.....ten times more jumps that you do.
Now.....show us some more of your "inexperience" or lack thereof.

bozo

Quote

I am always amazed at how many experienced people with time in the sport land like absolute crap.

In 6 years & 15 dropzones visited, I can legitimately only think of one "experienced" jumper that I have seen/known, that despite all their "experience" still lands like "absolute crap" as you say.

Unless your DZ in an anomoly, and is filled with experienced skydivers pounding in all day, I personally do not read any validity in your comment, but that is just my experience and opinion.

I know one person, not very "amazed" am I.....

Quote

Quote

I am always amazed at how many experienced people with time in the sport land like absolute crap.

Hey Hydroguy.....I land like crap. I didnt always.
A crushed spine and an artificial hip will do that to you.
My friend Jan Davis landed like crap too. She had two artificial hips.....and.....ten times more jumps that you do.
Now.....show us some more of your "inexperience" or lack thereof.

bozo

PM sent

I have been to more than 15 DZs and seen a LOT of up-jumpers that land like crap. In fact I know of several people with well over a 1000 jumps that can't stand up a landing to save their life, a couple with multiple broken bones over the years, etc, etc.

I really don't think hydro's comments were out of line at all. Maybe not politically correct or sensitive, but not far from the truth that jump numbers don't necessarily equal skill. Hell, even Bryan Burke said something similar in a conversation we had once. "What does thousands of jumps _really_ mean? Well, you know how to pull."

After the 100-something-way x-country load at the last holiday boogie Craig Girard even commented how almost everyone was pounding into the main landing area. I personally witnessed an impact with a tree, someone skidding across the concrete taxiway, someone land in with the farm animals behind Larry Hill's house, etc, etc.

Across the board, canopy skills are lacking, hence the USPA's campaign. While it's fashionable to shake an angry finger at swoopers, "safe" people under big canopies get hurt equally as often. In fact, most of the injuries I have witnessed (lots) were "experienced" jumpers.

Somneone that knows the REAL use for a BlastHandle ;)

Quote

>I can think of a certain world record where a great number of people piled in after each jump. I assume current world record holders qualify as 'experienced' by most standards.

Funny thing about high altitude jumps and the effect on people's ability to land a parachute.......

Quote

a skydiver with 100 jumps is NOT experienced.

I agree with this statement. At 100 jumps a skydiver has only begun to scratch the surface of this sport. Of course there are exceptions (the "naturals," those who've dropped bucks at a wind tunnel and/or those who have prior air sports experience), but at 100 jumps most skydivers are still working on learning the basics of body and canopy flight. That's not my definition of experienced.

But I don't think there is a magic number of jumps that makes you experienced either. It depends on the experience level of the person observing. To someone with 5 jumps a person with 50 can seem to be experienced, but to a person who's done 5000 jumps? Probably not.

Quote

Funny thing about high altitude jumps and the effect on people's ability to land a parachute...

I am talking about international competitors in 4 way/8 way RW...that are exiting at 10.5k passes if we are going to start calling out altitudes. I am talking about big way 100+ camps, JFTC 160+ World Records, the POPS records etc. People who have some time in the sport, jump numbers and currency to boot...yet they do a butt slide or hit their hands and knees 1 out of every 5 to 1 out of every 10 jumps. JFTC could have had their own orthopedic specialist camped out @ the dz for the week last summer.

I think that saying other or experienced skydiver's land like crap is an ego thing. I land my spectre better or more efficienlty than a friend of mine with twice as many jumps. He's also older, and has different life experiences. He and other's know skydiving stuff that I don't, and vice-versa.
at almost 6 years in the sport and jumping pretty much every weekend. I'd rather stay humble and teachable and consider myself still a baby.

Quote

I think that saying other or experienced skydiver's land like crap is an ego thing. I land my spectre better or more efficienlty than a friend of mine with twice as many jumps. He's also older, and has different life experiences.

Age, life experiences, etc have nothing to do with it. If he hits the ground harder than you and/or more often than you, he is going to suffer from the subsequent effects...

QUOTE-Age, life experiences, etc have nothing to do with it. If he hits the ground harder than you and/or more often than you, he is going to suffer from the subsequent effects...






I think your just trying to argue and start something.

Quote

JFTC could have had their own orthopedic specialist camped out @ the dz for the week last summer.

Have you ever been on a record attempt? Have you ever been in the air with 150+ canopies? The stress level for each jumper on a record attempt is pretty high, especially if it's the first time you've been on one. Add in 150+ other canopies in the air with you and that stress level goes up. Then add in the fact that the air in Perris can be less than ideal for canopy flight when it's hot, especially if you aren't used to it, and the fact that many of those women came from sea level dropzones and you might begin to understand why some people's landings were less than perfect. There was a lot more going on there than on your average freefly jump out of one Otter.

Quote

I think your just trying to argue and start something.

Agreed.....but I will be willing to talk to Hydroguy again a few years from now, when he has a few thousand jumps......his attitude will have changed.

We all know though.....as the percentages show, that he wont be around, so its a mute point.

bozo

I'll still be jumping.

Quote

I'll still be jumping.

Thats rich...We ALL think we will be around, but the numbers of members of the USPA keep dropping every year. People who die don't think they they will not bounce.

I always find it funny when some guy with a few years says he will be around in "X" years....The simple fact is you have no idea.

Don't feel bad, I said the same thing back then.

I think one measure of "experienced" is when you realize that skydiving is not life. That the whole world does not revolve around jumping and when the giddyness has worn off. Until then you run around on a high thinking you will always jump and life only begins at 12 grand.....

Quote

So I think experience is way more than a jump number, its ability, attitude, etc. But if forced to put a number on it, I think in the wuffo/noob (like me) mindset, 100 J would be considered experienced.

Its not.

When you realize that you don't know anything, and ACT like you may never know enough....Then you are close to being expereinced.

Its not a number of jump, or points turned in time. I had a good friend that could skydive circles around me bounce from a simple mal.

Quote

Sitting here reading thru this thread I began to think back to when I felt competent as a skydiver.
At 200 jumps I was an egotistical shithot skydiver. It didnt matter that I didnt know shit.
At 500 jumps or so I began to realize just how much I had to learn. At that point I really buckled down and began to apply myself. I got all my ratings and did 1000 tandems......hundreds of demos. I began to feel like I had a handle on this jumping shit. Then I bounced, on a demo.....broke oodles and bunches of stuff. I began, after my recovery to learn it all over again. Now here I am a pretty good RW flyer......knowing very little about freeflying. So you might see....its all subjective and conditional.
Stick around....be safe.....skydiving will give you what you need.

Bingo. Well said.

Hey Ron,
Your being a Dick!

Quote

Hey Ron,
Your being a Dick!

No hes not. Hes speaking the truth. Read , listen.


bozo

QUOTE---Thats rich...We ALL think we will be around, but the numbers of members of the USPA keep dropping every year. People who die don't think they they will not bounce.

I always find it funny when some guy with a few years says he will be around in "X" years....The simple fact is you have no idea.

Don't feel bad, I said the same thing back then.

I think one measure of "experienced" is when you realize that skydiving is not life. That the whole world does not revolve around jumping and when the giddyness has worn off. Until then you run around on a high thinking you will always jump and life only begins at 12 grand.....

Ron, I don't plan on skydiving forever, But I will right now. And I don't jump thinking that it can't kill me cuz it can and I know that , everytime I exit an aircraft .
And my life doesn't begin at 12 grand, it only complements it.
Finally,...what does this have to do with the topic.

Quote

Hey Ron,
Your being a Dick!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No hes not. Hes speaking the truth.

it's possible to do both at the same time.

Quote

I have a general question for all of you DZ.commers.. I was reading on another thread a comment made by somebody to the effect of:

a skydiver with 100 jumps is NOT experienced.

I just want to know at what jump number is one
considered experienced? I have over 350 jumps and know that i have SO much more to learn but I do consider myself experienced. So whats the general opinion on theis.. Maybe we can turn this thread into a Poll? I dont know how to though..

Blues,
Dan

Taking it back to the origional question and how I saw it... I think the one time that I've seen this type of comment made most is in the incident forum, people tend to make this kind of comment when the reporters say "The jumper was an experienced jumper, with 119 jumps" and someone always pipes in saying "119 jumps is NOT experienced" ....

In this situation you are infact implying that there is a number of jumps which makes you "experienced" . I have never seen it discussed whether or not that person was experienced by how they took advice, tried to give advice, etc. etc to determine whether or not they qualified as experienced like the reporter stated, which is what people in this thread have tried to answer (or not answer).

Personally , I think it's pretty much a load of crap to make a comment like that in those specific forums, .. In that situation I would definately consider them "experienced", .. they are definately not Very Experienced, but they are experienced as they have completed a number of jumps prior, even though it wasnt 6000 of them.

In the other sense, as far as giving advice to new jumpers and other "experienced" jumpers, that is when it takes on a new meaning. I do not consider myself to have much experience with the sport when it comes to this aspect, and there is no set number of jumps which will give me said experience. . However I do have experience with certian things, I would even say that i'm somewhat experienced with dealing with mals since I have had a fair share of them in my otherwise limited skydiving experiences.

Tough question when you look at it one way, but in some ways I think it's very valid. To those of you who post to such news stories, what is the mark that you consider that fallen jumper an experienced jumper?