What makes an experienced skydiver?

With all do respect, did you ever stop to think for a minute that the people your bashing for falling down, if they have any real time in this sport 15 to 25 years or more, were jumping long before you were shit'n yellow.
Try walking a mile in their shoes and go make you 500 to a 1000 jumps on all rounds and squares from the late 70's and early 80 and let's see how well you hold up from the abuse.
I'll put up my 70 year old friend who has been jumping for 50 years stright and has well over 6000 jumps aginst you any day of the week, he pounds in every landing in the peas,
get's up dusts him self off and dose it again and again all day
and nails the dead center every time and makes 10 or more jumps a day, he out works, out fly's just about everyone on the dz.
It's guy's like him that made this sport what it is today, so you can enjoy your tippy toe landings and talk about how great you are for doing so, try showing a little more respect for your elders there sonny, they paved the way to get us here today and you don't seem to have a clue as to just how good you have it in todays sport!
Who give's a rat's ass if someone falls down or drops to a knee or touches a hand down, I'll bet everyone at the JFTC record your talking about picked them selfs up had a good chuckel about it and then skydived their ass off.
You might try falling down a little more you might learn something.....

~

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Hey Ron,
Your being a Dick!

Nice personal attack

Look, if you cannot accept the fact that most skydivers think they will be jumping forever, yet the numbers show otherwise...Thats your problem, not mine.

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Ron, I don't plan on skydiving forever, But I will right now. And I don't jump thinking that it can't kill me cuz it can and I know that , everytime I exit an aircraft .
And my life doesn't begin at 12 grand, it only complements it.
Finally,...what does this have to do with the topic.

Pretty simple. If you can't look off the Dropzone and see that life is all around...Then you are not experienced. You are still "in love" with jumping and do not have enough experience to know that skydiving is not life. Thats how it applies.

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Hey Ron,
Your being a Dick!

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No hes not. Hes speaking the truth.

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it's possible to do both at the same time.

Some refuse to look past their wishes to see the truth.

You may think someone who points that out is a dick...fine.

I have nothing to prove to you, and I am not out looking for your acceptance.

Not living your life seeking approval from others is another sign of being experienced. Being secure in who you are.

Ron,

Are you being a dick ?

Excellent. Well, drive on. (Think of the typing that it saves me.)

Anyway, we both know a certain woman. 5'1" 110lbs, a bad knee, and wears 17 lbs of weight. A butt-slide landing on a lot of jumps because she can't hardly walk with it, much less run.

Of course, people base their opinions on what they know. Perhaps they don't consider things like that.

4 months and 24 jumps, according to the media.

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4 months and 24 jumps, according to the media.

Yes, but the media has only two categories: first-time and experienced. (Maybe three... they might throw "student" in there).

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I think one measure of "experienced" is when you realize that skydiving is not life. That the whole world does not revolve around jumping and when the giddyness has worn off. Until then you run around on a high thinking you will always jump and life only begins at 12 grand.....

Fuck. You just turned me into a newbie...

t

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I think your just trying to argue and start something.

Agreed.....but I will be willing to talk to Hydroguy again a few years from now, when he has a few thousand jumps......his attitude will have changed.

We all know though.....as the percentages show, that he wont be around, so its a mute point.

bozo

Hey Jim,

Just another pile of testosterone wanting to run with the big dogs. Give him 15 years and a couple thousand landings on a pocket rocket and he won’t give a shit who stands it up and who doesn’t. If he makes it that long.

Sparky

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the numbers of members of the USPA keep dropping every year. People who die don't think they they will not bounce.

Yeah, but the vast majority are not around after a few years because they got a life, not becaused they bounced.

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I can't comment to much on skydive experience, but on software programming experience, we often say at work: "We need an experienced programmer" This really does not mean we want someone who has written X lines of code or has been a programmer for Y years, it means "We want someone who knows his/her shit, who writes tight code and can meet deadlines." I have worked with programmers who have been coding for years and they can't write worth crap.

To put it in perspective: someone with 100 jumps is like a college Comp Sci graduate. They've got a good grounding, understand the principles, but with little real world experience will still need mentoring and advice to get useful work done.

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the numbers of members of the USPA keep dropping every year. People who die don't think they they will not bounce.

Yeah, but the vast majority are not around after a few years because they got a life, not becaused they bounced.

Yes.....this is true. Thruout my tenure in the sport, because I never got a real life, I have seen that skydiving is a step in some peoples acenscion to where they want to be.....good job, family, big house.
I consider myself very lucky....for some reason unknown to me I got it all. I am the Forrest Gump of skydiving.

bozo

i was just pointing out that one action could be percieved two different ways and both could be simultaneously true. it's just something i've noticed in my "experience".

somebody else wrote this:
"While it's fashionable to shake an angry finger at swoopers,. In fact, most of the injuries I have witnessed (lots) were "experienced" jumpers. "
and nobody has commented on this.. is that true? I found it hard to believe...


below is what one of the other posters wrote... he undertsands the reason i started this thread.

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I have a general question for all of you DZ.commers.. I was reading on another thread a comment made by somebody to the effect of:

a skydiver with 100 jumps is NOT experienced.

I just want to know at what jump number is one
considered experienced? I have over 350 jumps and know that i have SO much more to learn but I do consider myself experienced. So whats the general opinion on theis.. Maybe we can turn this thread into a Poll? I dont know how to though..

Blues,
Dan

Taking it back to the origional question and how I saw it... I think the one time that I've seen this type of comment made most is in the incident forum, people tend to make this kind of comment when the reporters say "The jumper was an experienced jumper, with 119 jumps" and someone always pipes in saying "119 jumps is NOT experienced" ....

In this situation you are infact implying that there is a number of jumps which makes you "experienced" . I have never seen it discussed whether or not that person was experienced by how they took advice, tried to give advice, etc. etc to determine whether or not they qualified as experienced like the reporter stated, which is what people in this thread have tried to answer (or not answer).

Personally , I think it's pretty much a load of crap to make a comment like that in those specific forums, .. In that situation I would definately consider them "experienced", .. they are definately not Very Experienced, but they are experienced as they have completed a number of jumps prior, even though it wasnt 6000 of them.

In the other sense, as far as giving advice to new jumpers and other "experienced" jumpers, that is when it takes on a new meaning. I do not consider myself to have much experience with the sport when it comes to this aspect, and there is no set number of jumps which will give me said experience. . However I do have experience with certian things, I would even say that i'm somewhat experienced with dealing with mals since I have had a fair share of them in my otherwise limited skydiving experiences.

Tough question when you look at it one way, but in some ways I think it's very valid. To those of you who post to such news stories, what is the mark that you consider that fallen jumper an experienced jumper?

HISPA 72 ----- "Muff Brother" 3733

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... is one considered experienced?...

Remember, "good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

There is a lot of truth in that saying. I don't think you need to necessarily be the one that exercises poor judgement to gain experience by it, but whether it be your own screw-ups and close calls or those of someone else, learning important lessons give one the experience needed to then use good judgement.

ps Damn, that was pretty profound

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I am always amazed at how many experienced people with time in the sport land like absolute crap.

Well, if you follow my definition of experience, outlined here....

Once you can accept your posittion in the line-up, you're there.

Even a guy with 50 jumps. If he knows where he stands, and acts accordingly, he's already got it.

..... then is appears that you are not an 'experienced' jumper.

Lets review, you state that people you consider to be 'experienced', meaning they have more jumps than you, land like crap. The hard truth is that they are still jumping, and apparently have been for longer than you, so it's interesting to that you question their methods.

Another thing, watch the 'big shot' talk. One day, you'll twist your ankle on a landing, and instead of rushing to your aid, expect the 'experienced' guys to point and laugh. And laugh, and laugh, and laugh. Oh, how they will laugh.

Which really goes back to what I said. It depends from where, and what, you are judging.

As far as jump numbers go here is a simple formula :-

Your Jump No's - 10% = inexperienced.
Your Jump No's + 10% = experienced.

Works for nearly everyone!

If comparing jump numbers does not provide an acceptable result, change jump numbers to "years in sport".

Attacking fellow skydivers based on "experience" is a favourite pastime of the more "experienced" skydivers. This is why, when DZ.com rated posters on the number of posts made, the "experienced" who could not type very fast got rather frustrated. After much lobbying they got their wish and profiles with jump numbers and years in the sport were introduced.

The "very experienced" take great pleasure out of leaving their profiles blank. This is not to say that everyone with no profile is "experienced" - as an example take a look at my profile.

"experienced" in the sport it just sounds like an ego thing for the 'old timers' to belittle the 'new timers' and for newbies to try to call themselves this because they always seem to have a problem with their skydiving self esteem.

out of the sport, someone with 10 jumps is experienced compared to someone with zero jumps. I mean, they have like twice as many jumps than someone with zero

I love DZ.com semantics arguments, those are the ones that really get people spun up.

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I love DZ.com semantics arguments, those are the ones that really get people spun up.

Agreed!

That covers about 99% of all DZ.com arguments.

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Fuck. You just turned me into a newbie...

I call BS on that one. You are into martial arts, travel...ect. You have more in your life than just jumping.

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the numbers of members of the USPA keep dropping every year. People who die don't think they they will not bounce.

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Yeah, but the vast majority are not around after a few years because they got a life, not becaused they bounced.

True and maybe I worded it wrong. It should have read, "the numbers of members of the USPA keep dropping every year. People get a new job, find a partner, go back to school, find another hobby. And people who die don't think they will bounce either.

At some point most skydivers seem to think they will do this forever...However, that is rare.

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You might try falling down a little more you might learn something.....

Jump 32... buttslide landing...cracked my cocyx...hurt like a bitch and kept me from jumping for a month, bothered me several more. Was an awesome learning lesson just my third month into the sport...beat the hell out of breaking a hip or a femur or my spine to get me to respect this sport...(not that any of those things can't happen at any given time on any given jump)

For all those people who have your panties in a wringer over my landing comments...figure it out. There are three things every jump consists of...packing, pulling, landing. I can pay a packer, and I can have a Cypress put a canopy over my head, but I have yet to find a way to land a non-tandem skydive other than myself.

Do you want to know why I know so many so called "expert" or "experienced" skydivers land like crap? Because my CANOPY COACHES have just had me sit with them on the grass and watch people plow in over and over...and then I debrief them on what the person did wrong. I kind of like the philosophy that it is better to learn from others mistakes than from your own...at least it's less painful. I mean isn't that the whole idea behind coaching? Notice I said canopy COACHES...plural. I have several because different teachers have different EXPERIENCES to offer in their knowledge base.

Some skydivers remind me of public employee union members...their time in the sport is like tenure or something. And just like public employee unions, tenure doesn't equal ability or knowledge or anything else for that matter...just time. Ability and knowledge are more individual aspects that will vary from person to person.

I am not experienced. And for all of those who personally jumped my ass for my extremely general statement, I don't consider any of you experienced either. None of you are Dan BC's, or Jim Wallace's, or Mike Swanson's.

You want to put me in my place, but I'm very well aware of my place, you should figure out yours...

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...cracked my cocyx...

hee hee hee

If I'm emailing a DZ for information, I refer to myself as an experienced jumper, solely to differentiate myself from a student looking for the same information.

However, in any other circumstance, I do not consider myself experienced by any stretch of the imagination. Most likely I'll never consider myself experienced, as there's always far more to learn no matter the number of jumps.

How's that for a solid answer