The death of Skydiving

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Call it whatever you'd like.

Well, okay, but I'm not so quick to dismiss such things. Sure, I've known and know numerous skydivers that own a rig and come out and do a handful of jumps a year. They're interest in it is to jump from an airplane, bore a hole in the sky and open a parachute and land and the bottom end a few dozen times a year. Its certainly correct to say they're interest is more "recreational" then say someone who does several hundred jumps a year and their jones is to always trying to better their RW, FF and/or canopy piloting skills.

However, I do cringe when I hear someone refer to skydiving as a "recreational activity". Its the same cringe I feel when I hear someone use the words "safe" and "skydiving" in the same sentance, but that's a different topic.

Anyway, "Recreational Activity" makes me think of bowling or golf when I hear that phrase. Sure, there is a very competative element to both of those, but whether your a family at the local put-put course or Tiger Woods on the PGA tour, you don't friggin' die, wind-up in a wheel chair or with metal parts in your long bones at the end of the day if things go badly with either of those "recreational activities."

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My point is that retention requires "selling" a student on the idea that skydiving is something fun that they can do. If they don't see a fun future for themselves in skydiving, they won't keep jumping.

Oh, of course, very very true. If students don't see a path forward "that skydiving is something fun that they can do" then they'll gravatate away towards other things. But I have a bigger problem things like Skydive-U, 25 Jump Student Programs to get your "A" and Sky-Ride all pushed, partly, under the guise of "retaining students" and "attracting people to the sport" that really appear (to me) to be a way for some to bleed more $$$ from the "student" populace by those that want to be professional DZ-bum's AND eat steak as a bigger problem with things in the sport today... but... that... like they say... is a different story.

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Agreed...but we have to start some where.

YOU can have a positive impact with your operation...however small it may seem, at least it's a start.

True enough. I wouldn't say we totally offer just a ride operation. We have IAD, AFF or tandem. All three are explained when people inquire and after a tandem they are given information about how to come back for more and discounts if they do. I am still not convinced though that giving rides is the downfall though. I think if people want to get involved they do. If not they just take a ride. Whether I spend 6 hours or 20 minutes, I just feel like they either want it or they don't. I feel this way because like I said, we spend all day with the solo kids and still, very few return.

I don't know the actual numbers, and it probably changes from DZ to DZ, but really, folks, the retention rate for students is always going to be pretty low. True, the sport has grown significantly from the days of a "field and a trailer", but at some point we were going to hit an upper limit.

This sport is NOT for everyone, and we cannot realistically expect it to grow in numbers forever. We can, however, try to maintain some consistent ballpark number. I don't know what that would be in the US.

Back in the day, we'd have 50 - 75 students come out each day to do static line jumps at the particular DZ that I was at. So that's about 100 - 150 students per weekend over the course of the summer. That's a LOT of students. Now, how many do you think would stick around for jump 2, or season 2? Not that many. If we had a dozen new jumpers by the end of the year, that was pretty damn good.

If the tandem numbers are the same, and you get a dozen new jumpers, then you're still doing pretty damn good. On the other hand, if you're getting only one or two, you've got a problem.

The major differences between then and now are:

-the student and up-jumper populations are separated

-The students are on the DZ for a couple of hours, and talk only to the staff & tandem masters

-the tandem is not marketed as a gateway to a new activity.

The result of all of the above is that the student has no opportunity to insert him/herself into the sport unless they really, REALLY want to do this. Now, that said, back in the day, you had to really, REALLY want to do this too, if you wanted to get into the sport. You think the skygod problem is a problem now? Hehe - you should have seen it in the mid-70s. Guys who would be laughed off of DZs today were strutting around making life miserable for the newbies and getting away with it because we didn't have video. The did it simply by force of personallity. At least today, you've got to walk the walk and prove it on every dive. And everyone can have a bad jump and get it caught on video for the rest of us to laugh at.

But I digress.......

The way we kept students around then was to include them in the social activities, by the up jumpers making an effort to talk to the students, answer the questions, and provide insight and instruction without being condescending. That rule hasn't changed, we still need to do that. The changes in the way the sport is administered has made that part of it more difficult.

One of my favorite tactics (and many other jumpers would do the same), was to have a pretty young lady hold tension on my rig while I packed. I had a captive audience for about 8 minutes where I could show her the basics of packing, talk about the student progression, and maybe get a phone number. If an irrate boyfriend showed up, I'd switch tactics, and simply keep to the packing, progression, and invite them both to join us for beers and partying after their jump. It was actually very effective. After square canopies came into vogue, it was a bit harder, but we still tried to keep the students engaged.

My suggestions: have the students physically in a place that places them in the middle of the action on the ground. Jumpers welcome all these people and stay friendly, answer questions and try not to roll your eyes on the 5,000th time that a wuffo asks you "What happens when the reserve doesn't open?" Encourage them to hang out, tell them about the fire at the end of the day. Have the DZ change the marketing so that it encourages repeat business. Repeat business is more business, and therefore good for the DZs bottom line. A healthy DZ is good for everyone.

And if there's folks on the DZ that you don't get along with, well, that happens everywhere you go. It's just part of the human equation. Get used to it, and just stay away from them as best you can. At least you know you have something in common with them. You're both there to have fun.

The way I see it (and others, in other threads...) the slow-down in skydiving is a result of many things, all happening at the same time:

1) the emergence, in the past 10 years, of many other, affordable extreme-type sports to the high-adrenaline crowd

2) the competition with other sport/activites like golf, scuba, motorcycling,etc. that are becoming more attractive to the older segment of skydivers

3) the competition with actitivities that are cheaper and more convenient (not necessarily those items
quoted in 2) above)

4) burn-out/boredom - Yes - skydiving may become
less exciting, after x000 jumps, to those who need high excitment on a regular basis

5) being less attractive to the current generation of young adults that have been raised by their TV and computer games
(I remember being rationed to 1 hr/day by my parents some 40 yrs ago - Im sure glad they did!).

etc. etc.

Finding the causes for the apparent death of skydiving is like finding those for hard openings: there are lots of factors involved, and they all contribute in small but equal manner.

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2) the competition with other sport/activites like golf, scuba, motorcycling,etc. that are becoming more attractive to the older segment of skydivers

Would somebody please put a bullet in my head if they ever catch me tradin' in my rigs for a set of clubs.

Am I entitled to point out what a whiny geezer you sound like. There is a lot of the "entitled generation" generation fighting and dying in an unpopular war right now without having to be drafted. I'm sure the skydivers of your day where a much more noble group. J

As long as there are planes to fly, fuel to power them, and people to fly them, there will be people who jump out of them.

But people are a funny sort. While there is obviously some consistency between those who participate, even in my limited exposure to the general skydiving populous, there is a vast amount of diversity between them. Doctors, lawyers, college/high school kids, older, younger, retired, unemployed (at least as far as a W2 is concerned haha), wealthy, not-so-wealthy, married, single, parents, reserved, boisterous, rebellious, regimental, religious, non-religious, friendly, alienating.... the list goes on and on. But despite all these different traits or combinations thereof, within everyone who participates there is that desire to jump out of planes. Some really do take it as a lifestyle choice. For others it's simply a hobby. I mean, the fact is, skydivers don't just have a diverse background, they have diverse motivations for jumping.

Within this very simplified spectrum of people, those who stay for life are always going to outnumber those who just stop by the sport for a time. Again, for some, it is their life. For others, it's an add-on to their life. Neither one is more right or more deserving in their reasons or ability to continue jumping.

All that matters is that, at any given time, there is this collection of people in the world that wants to jump out of planes. Even the one-shot carnival ride tandem passenger has a tiny grain of that desire. You can't do very much to guarantee retention. The seeds of a life filled with skydiving take a different type of soil to flourish in than what the overwhelming majority of people have in them. You can plant a little seed of desire in just about anyone you meet. But not every seed will germinate. Very few people I've met and mentioned skydiving to haven't been horribly intrigued by it often stating that they wish they could do it. But there's a lot between wanting to do it and making it happen. Look at the barrier to entry? I've personally spent $2400 on training so far and I'm not even through with AFF. Sure I went a little crazy and bought 30 minutes of tunnel coaching after 2 failed level 3's, but I still did it. Think of the personal difference between the average Joe Tandem who might even feel a little guilty after dropping $250 on 1 jump plus video, and a person like me who is willing to whip out that credit card to get in and get settled as fast as I rationally can. You can't instill that kind of behavioral attitude in everyone or even anyone at all. But not having it doesn't stop Joe Tandem from doing a jump.

Simply put, you're never going to see the retention you might think you'd love to see. Sure more retention is good for business, but a lot goes in and comes out of higher retention than what you can necessarily want or deliver. It's a niche sport as far as the sport is concern. It may be considered mainstream as a "recreational activity", but it's not a mainstream hobby or lifestyle. Almost anyone will ride a carnival ride, but not just anyone will travel with the carnival.

"Yeah" it can generate money...just not as much money as Tandems and AFF. So, how do you get the DZO buy in? Not gonna happen because too many DZ's are business rather than Skydiving Centers.
Maybe there are alot of people who would take the hop-n-pop. But, when you combine all of the factors it becomes a very difficult (probably impossible) task.

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We often see what we look for. If I want, I can see old farts complaining of how it use to be, and kids ruining skydiving with their "entitlemnet" attitude. Is that all there is? Not unless that is all you want to see.

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I guess we can see what you are looking for

Actually, I think I can see the difference in pointing out one person's negative condescending attitude that labels everyone not like them as a detriment to the society.

I'm an 52 year old old fart, so I'm certainly not railing against our senior citizens, or the young up and coming studs. I'm merely pointing out that at a DZ if you get "object fixation" you'll likely strike said object.

Noted, but as a 50 year old old fart the point made about this current genreation is spot on. You don't have to be fixated to see it. Just open your eyes. I left the sport for 20 years. I did not come back for the jumping, I came back for the people.

That said, I have made many great new friends who are much younger than me and for that I am truly gratful. They keep me young (and entertained

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I'm guessing that there are lots of people who jump with a club DZ wondering what this is all about..... "Bring back the static line?" It never left did it? "A dropzone was just a field with a C182" Yes, and a trailer set off to the side..... right?

Thanks for reading my mind.

I feel the same. Reading this has really made me appreciate the atmosphere, attention, attitude, instruction, and friendliness I receive every time I go out there.

Actually, there was one thing that turned me off about skydiving more than anything else. The old Wreck-Dot

Eventually, everyone got tired of the same ill-tempered 200-jump "experts" who ripped into anyone new. One person asked me if most skydivers were abusive and rednecks. After reading a few threads from the "old school" skydivers, the person didn't want to be around skydiving.

The sport has evolved to where 300 jumps does not make you an expert. (It never did probably) People do expect more skill from their coaches. The professionals want to make a living from their job (I do).

Many jumpers don't want to jump with 2 other people from 10K. I also really don't trust C-182s.

Tandems fill slots on planes and keep professionals working.

Skydiving is dangerous. People should have a large desire to jump. If the people with a minor interest don't come back, I don't want them back.

Jumpers are way more skilled, planes are better, professionals are better.

I am a student jumper (lousy weather has kept me a student since January). My experience has been:

Most jumpers just benignly ignored me. Of course, I got my fair share of good luck "handshakes" during our climb to altitude.

The packers were the first to be nice without being paid (instructors were nice... but they are paid to be). Their kindness really helped me feel comfortable in the first few days at the DZ. This was really helpful as I was on almost eternal wind holds.

Some of the instructors and coaches have been nicer than I have a right to expect. One instructor who is a rigger has spent lots of time SHOWING me cool stuff about rigs and is always available for questions. My coach is way more patient than I deserve.

Only one jumper was nasty... It is really sad when a person with enough experience to be a World Team 2006 member feels the need to verbally abuse a nervous student who is desperately trying to stay out of the jumpers' way while getting his nerves under control. Heck I was lurking out in the parking lot to stay out of the way when he strafed me! All of us at the DZ would be smart to remember that newbies (tandems and other students) are often very nervous. Students have lots of reasons to be nervous: fear of... death, injury, the economic cost of blowing an AFF jump, etc.

With time at the DZ, a few jumpers have warmed to me.

My coach has facilitated a couple of connections when trying to connect me with folks who had gear for sale. I found these folks very warm and helpful once the intro was made.

Buying beer when I completed AFF made for a chatty evening with the regulars.

The more I jump, the easier things get... 'cuz we have something in common to talk about.

My conclusions:
Skydiving is no different than the rest of life:

-- Most folks are nice if you are nice to them.
-- Most folks hesitate to make first contact with strangers (this applied bilaterally).
-- There are always a few toxic misfits in any crowd.
-- Skydiving is essentially narcissistic. Therefore, it is no surprise that unbridled egos can be found at a DZ. Let's be honest... it ain't church camp.

This isn't an issue that we can cure by policy or program. This is a matter that we can only address by chosing to fix it one newbie at a time:

-- A kind word while waiting to board the aircraft (but not too much... our brains are very full)
-- A sincere question about how the jump went when the newbie gets on the ground (not a long discussion that interferes with debriefing, but an experession of your interest).
-- Inviting the idle student on wind hold to watch you pack. (heck, just pointing out the parts of your rig that are different from the student's rig can be helpful).

Please think "good jump weather" thoughts for me in the next couple of weekends...maybe I can finish my student jumps!

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Noted, but as a 50 year old old fart the point made about this current genreation is spot on. You don't have to be fixated to see it. Just open your eyes

Sadly, it sounds as if you too believe it is the"other" generation that is THE problem. The entitlement attitude is not a problem of one generation. It is a problem of one's mindset, that is pervasive in every generation and culture. Again, you can look at this younger generation and color them with a broad stroke of disdain. I prefer to see men like my middle son who volunteered in 2003 to go to Afghanistan. Yep, Sgt Drew Phelps, skydiver? Yes! Entitlement brat? Hardly.

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Noted, but as a 50 year old old fart the point made about this current genreation is spot on. You don't have to be fixated to see it. Just open your eyes

I prefer to see men like my middle son who volunteered in 2003 to go to Afghanistan. Yep, Sgt Drew Phelps, skydiver? Yes! Entitlement brat? Hardly.

Tell him we appreciate him.

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Noted, but as a 50 year old old fart the point made about this current genreation is spot on. You don't have to be fixated to see it. Just open your eyes

Sadly, it sounds as if you too believe it is the"other" generation that is THE problem. The entitlement attitude is not a problem of one generation. It is a problem of one's mindset, that is pervasive in every generation and culture. Again, you can look at this younger generation and color them with a broad stroke of disdain. I prefer to see men like my middle son who volunteered in 2003 to go to Afghanistan. Yep, Sgt Drew Phelps, skydiver? Yes! Entitlement brat? Hardly.

You post as if I say that the other generation is THE problem. If that is what you think I am saying you are mistaken. Despite what you say gen "y"ers look at the world competly different than you and I do. Can't help it, It is a fact of being and it is not a good or bad thing. It simply is. If you cant see that then you are not looking. Older generations look at the change in this next generation as bad or good. Some just admit they are different. The original post nailed this generation to a tee. Not good or bad per se, it just is what it is. and the generations before them are the only ones that can take the credit or blame cause they have created the world that is the reality in which they live. Credit or blame, just depends on how you look at it don't you suppose?

If you think this present generation has a monopoly on an entitlement attitudes, you have obviously have a very narrow view. But that is just my opinion.

I prefer to see men like my middle son who volunteered in 2003 to go to Afghanistan. Yep, Sgt Drew Phelps, skydiver? Yes! Entitlement brat? Hardly.

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Special case, he has a better role model than many his age.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

ya think so?

seriously guys ... are we that quick to lump a whole generation as the entitlement generation? Sadly, that sounds more like people of my generation and my father's generation lumping people together based on color and ethnic origin. It all appears stupid to me.

Your response appears to be directed at another thread because you failed to mention anything I posted about.

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You know, I hear this about once every five years.

That means you have heard it less the 3 times.

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I heard it when I started in 1991.

And I have only noticed what I posted about in the last 10 to 12 years even though I started jumping in 1976.

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I'm guessing that there are lots of people who jump with a club DZ wondering what this is all about..... "Bring back the static line?" It never left did it? "A dropzone was just a field with a C182" Yes, and a trailer set off to the side..... right?

Actually we had an old U-haul that probably hasn't moved since the 60's to store gear and a small trailer for the FJC. Damn, I miss home.

I think everyone's whining a lot about this. Times change. Our generation is different than the founders and our kids will be different than us. Big deal. Find a DZ you like or move on to said sports like scuba or drinking.

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Actually, there was one thing that turned me off about skydiving more than anything else. The old Wreck-Dot

This is one of the most pathetic things I've ever read.

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Actually, there was one thing that turned me off about skydiving more than anything else. The old Wreck-Dot

This is one of the most pathetic things I've ever read.

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my thoughts exactly.

...even though I started jumping in 1976.

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Tourist!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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Am I entitled to point out what a whiny geezer you sound like.

Yes you are.

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There is a lot of the "entitled generation" generation fighting and dying in an unpopular war right now without having to be drafted.

Were you one of them or is this something you have just heard about?

I fought in an unpopular war in 1967/68, lost friends and when we came home we were spit on. I also spent 30 years of my life as a Firefighter. But none of that can justify rude and belligerent behavior. Read this very slowly so there is no misunderstanding, the young men and women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan are not the ones that fall into the group I am referring to. But then I am pretty sure you knew that.

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I'm sure the skydivers of your day where a much more noble group.

Some were and some weren’t Those that weren’t were asked to knock off the crap or leave. The few were not allowed to kill the fun of the many.