AAD use - let's hear it!

D22369

when I was younger I enjoyed freeclimbing - climbing in safe mode never interested me.

This is my life, I will jump free from the nanny state mentality as long as I can - when they become mandatory I will Base exclusively.

Roy

I always find it strange when people write about "nanny state" in the world of skydiving. You really water down the term when you use it like that. If we were nanny state, there wouldn't be any skydiving. Ask most of our mothers. There is nothing wrong with making a safety device mandatory if a DZ or organisation chooses, especially because the consequences of you not having one can fall on other people. It could be considered a pretty selfish stance to take, if you have anybody who cares about you or relies on you.

As for the freeclimbing... when I was a kid, my dad took me camping at a lake with a huge cliff. A guy was freeclimbing up it. He fell and hit the water, died on impact. I was on the beach beside his sobbing girlfriend, who was crying about how much she loved him. He was a selfish ass for not taking any safety precautions, not using widely available, practical rock climbing gear. The consequences of his decision were not only his, but also hers.

grimmie

-It might cut the reserve loop, but the reserve may not extract in time. Yes, this is a problem and I think of Brooke Baum, who went in with an AAD fire and the reserve didn't extract. I think this is something the gear manufacturers should all test and ensure a reserve will extract properly during an AAD activation. (Yes, I understand pilot chutes get in burbles)
-If the AAD fires, the reserve deploys and you are still knocked out, yes, the landing may still kill you.

Didn't she went in because she turned her cypress on back home at sea level?

grimmie

Zak Fogle went in at Lost Prairie. He had some limited use of his limbs, but had an A license. His AAD was off. I learned a valuable lesson that day. I should have given him a gear check.

I hate to say it, but Zak had a track record of not turning on his AAD when he could get away with it. The AAD spoiled the "purity" of the experience for him. I talked to him when he was filling out his waiver but didn't see him again.

I've said it a hundred times. No one can see the future. In our sport you need to play the odds. The odds favor people using RSLs and AADs.

There is nothing watered down about the term I used - forcing people to use a piece of equipment they do not wish to use for their own safety is exactly that.

skydiving even with all the safety devices could be considered a pretty selfish act, if you have anybody who cares about you or relies on you.

every skydive has the potential to go catastrophically wrong and end your life no matter what safety devices you use.

Me and my son went to the memorial weekend boogie at westplains in Washington state last week and had a great time camping and socializing but I never jump when he is on the dz as I have seen first hand what happens to the family that is forced to watch when something goes wrong, and if it ever does he will be informed of it, not watch it.

Roy

Have an AAD in one rig, not in the other.
I've jumped with it turned on, I've jumped with it turned off.
I've seen them save people, I've seen them misfire, I've seen them fire during a swoop.
I use it more for my family than for me.
I don't believe they should be mandatory. We are all big boys and girls and can make our own decisions. Some people have canopies so fast they would rather not risk a speed cypres even.
There are certain jumps I would not jump without it on such as tracking dives.

For a hop n pop I'm not worried about which rig I have on whether I have an AAD or not. Now that I have a speed cypres I always have it on for a jump
If they were mandatory, I would suggest a way out of needing it such as having S&TA approval at your dz so that every case is heard individually.

D22369

skydiving even with all the safety devices could be considered a pretty selfish act, if you have anybody who cares about you or relies on you.

Yet another reason not to have kids, and only be in relationships with people who don't expect you to stop enjoying life to please them.

JeffCa

He was a selfish ass for not taking any safety precautions, not using widely available, practical rock climbing gear. The consequences of his decision were not only his, but also hers.

After recently having to investigate the death of a friend and try and console his grieving loved ones I think the above is very on point.

You cannot believe you're not being an asshole if there are people you care about in this world and you don't do everything you can to be safe. I've had to be the shoulder covered in tears of the girlfriend of the guy that thought he had it all figured out.

lyosha

You cannot believe you're not being an asshole if there are people you care about in this world and you don't do everything you can to be safe.

I'd say the assholes are the people who expect others to live a certain way to meet expectations.

grue

***

You cannot believe you're not being an asshole if there are people you care about in this world and you don't do everything you can to be safe.

I'd say the assholes are the people who expect others to live a certain way to meet expectations.

this is correct

Remster

I've always had an AAD, and almost all of my jumps were made with one in (there may have been the odd borrowed gear jump after a cutaway kinda thing here and there), BUT, I do not want to see them being mandatory.

Pretty much this.

I think everyone should use an AAD, and the number of jumps I've done without one could be counted on two hands. And the cost argument is, frankly, bullshit. I don't even disagree with the increasing number of dropzones who make them mandatory - their house, their rules.

But making AAD use mandatory across all skydiving everywhere feels like it's ignoring some edge cases.

Having said that... I have increasing difficulty figuring out what those edge cases are nowadays.

Why exactly is the cost argument bullshit? Do you feel like everyone has $1200 sitting in their account but just doesn't want to spend it?

I know right?

If AAD is so cheap, fcking buy me one, buy others who doesn't have one.

I'll definitely use one if someone gives me one.

I did offer one with 1 year of life still in it to a jumper who needed one And no, I never got into her pants.

stayhigh

I know right?

If AAD is so cheap, fcking buy me one, buy others who doesn't have one.

I'll definitely use one if someone gives me one.

As has been mentioned, the cost of an aad is $6 a month. There are people who will rent you one for like $20 a month if you don't have a grand of credit left. Still less than one jump ticket a month.

If you can only afford to jump once a month, I think you should consider not jumping. You will never quite be current.

lyosha

***I know right?

If AAD is so cheap, fcking buy me one, buy others who doesn't have one.

I'll definitely use one if someone gives me one.

As has been mentioned, the cost of an aad is $6 a month.

That's a lie. The cost of the credit card payment if you put an AAD on one might be $6/mo, but that's not the same thing.

grue

******I know right?

If AAD is so cheap, fcking buy me one, buy others who doesn't have one.

I'll definitely use one if someone gives me one.

As has been mentioned, the cost of an aad is $6 a month.

That's a lie. The cost of the credit card payment if you put an AAD on one might be $6/mo, but that's not the same thing.

When people want to brag about how much their house is they give the total, "I live in a $250,000 house", rather than the actual cost which is their monthly payment. When people want to reduce the cost of an AAD to make their argument they reduce it down to a monthly payment even though they aren't paid for that way.

If you want to do math that way then a PDR is only about $5 per month if it's not recertified after 20 years of packing. They are even less if you get permission to keep packing it! I should have 10 of them! Also every rig you ever buy should have every additional feature offered when you buy it. I mean when you break down the cost per year of each of those features for the lifetime of the container it's practically free. You must be stupid if you don't have spacer foam padding, full articulation, stainless steel deluxe, a MARD, and everything else. They are practically giving it to you.

To me, monthly payment numbers versus total price numbers are crap.
Part of the reason new car sales are soaring.

$50 down, $50 a month, for 50 years!


Because maths.

I use an AAD. Used both Cypress (used one) and bought a brand new Vigil after that Cypress expired.

I use it because I'm mostly skydiving with other people and I can get hit during freefall and get unconsious. I think this is the single most important reason to use an AAD, regardless of what you are jumping or who are you jumping with. Pople can struck you in freefall (as it already ahppened to most people) and it can be hard (someone trying to get to a formation/group to agressively).

In that case the AAD will save my life. And I also think hardly on the reserve I am using (currenty a OP 176 loaded at 1.4ish~). If I'm unconsious under a canopy, I want to be on the biggest canopy possible.

The only reason I see not to use an AAD: Hop'n'pops (swopping).

normiss

To me, monthly payment numbers versus total price numbers are crap.
Part of the reason new car sales are soaring.

$50 down, $50 a month, for 50 years!


Because maths.

Maths are useful.

You can't compare AAD appraisal to PDR appraisal. Every AAD that I've seen sold used has been sold for or close to its formulaic value, in very short periods of time (last one I sold went in ~15-30 minutes). The demand for used AADs is very high.

So, given that you'll be able to sell your AAD should you want to not use it anymore, and that it has a defined, finite lifetime, you can figure out the monthly cost of AAD ownership. Which is ~$6. You can squirm all you want but that is reality.

Wicked wingsuits rents them for ~$20 if memory serves me right. A company called cloud 9 just emerged onto the scene as well and claim to offer AAD financing. Have a chat with them if borrowing money and then repaying it incrementally over some period of time is that confusing for you.

Then go rent me one dude.

I'll use it.

less than one jump ticket a month right?

stayhigh

Then go rent me one dude.

I'll use it.

less than one jump ticket a month right?

I don't want to get involved in the business of lending/renting gear/money. But you should see if these guys will help you:

http://www.wickedwingsuits.com/
http://cloud9rigs.com/

stayhigh

Then go rent me one dude.

I'll use it.

less than one jump ticket a month right?

There goes the "real" skydiving.

got me there.


I should've pushed, "I can't afford it" theory.

lyosha

As has been mentioned, the cost of an aad is $6 a month. There are people who will rent you one for like $20 a month if you don't have a grand of credit left. Still less than one jump ticket a month.

If you can only afford to jump once a month, I think you should consider not jumping. You will never quite be current.

As usual, an awful lot of BS getting spewed by a few people on Dizzy...

Here's your $20 rental fee:

"Thank you for reaching out us at Cloud 9 Parachute Leasing LLC.

We have the following payment options available for Cypres 2 AADs.

(2) month option - $729.89 + tax & shipping

(3) month option - $499.33 + tax & shipping

(12) month option - $164.53 + tax & shipping

These prices are a Lease to Own for new Cypres 2 AAD, at the end of the term you would own the AAD.

Please let me know if any of these plans work for you."

150 month service life for a Cypres comes out to $11.50 per month plus interest.

If you're going to make your argument towards people of marginal means, do it accurately.

Nanny States always start w/a foot in the door technique, because "It's just plain old common sense." Then, they quickly spiral out of control, passing progressively inhibitive laws. The They in those cases being assholes who think they've the right to impose their views on others. That's a Hell of a slippery slope once it starts.

Carry on...