Storm Vs Epicene

I do not agree a small canopy will flare better than a larger one. It is a highly dynamic process with many variables at play and I cannot do it justice.
It may be easier to time the flare on a smaller wing but it won't make more lift.

The porosity makes a less efficient wing so a larger wing is needed compared to a Zero P wing for the same amount of lift

All the videos I see manufacturers releasing typically show their pilots doing high performance landings. This is different to what I am talking about as you can generate a lot more lift with the increased airspeed compared to a straight in approach.

Personally I do not want to jump a wing that is tricky to land unless you induce speed to make up for the less efficient fabric.

The following is from the squirrell website. I am sure the wing is easy enough to land at a 1.2 WL but I would guess most load it higher and may explain the poor reviews.

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The Epicene is designed to make wingsuit skydiving parachute openings better, and the low-bulk material packs into a significantly smaller volume than standard ZP parachutes. What this means is that you should choose an Epicene that is larger than what you would normally jump for non-wingsuit applications. We recommend a wingloading in the range of 1.2:1 for experienced skydivers. Expert wingsuit and canopy pilots may wish to fly the Epicene at a higher wingloading, but it is important to understand that the canopy‘s best characteristics can only be fully experienced at a lower wingloading. Please take into consideration where you typically jump – density altitude is a critical factor that you must fully understand before jumping an Epicene. If you skydive more in Colorado than you do in Washington State, for example, then you must choose your size accordingly. Always be aware of changing density altitude conditions.

My friend downsized from a 150 zp canopy to a 130 epicene and did not enjoy the experience. His WL would be 1.3-1.4 and 4000ft ASL airfield. manufacturer expert WL is 1.3:1 at sea level.

From the user manual

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Do not use your EPICENE until or unless you have at least 200 skydives, and at least 50 skydives using a parachute that is at least 20% SMALLER than the size of EPICENE you intend to jump (for example, if you intend to jump a 170 EPICENE, you should have experience landing a 136 (or smaller) canopy, safely and comfortably, at least 50 times).

This is not a wing for all wingsuiters in my opinion. It is for top pilots with tiny rigs.

It's not complicated. The Epicene and the Horizon re-introduces f-111 type material. It will bring the following advantages that some of us know from years of experience back then so no new science here; more reliable openings, enable a design with shorter sniveling phase and thus less chance of getting line twists, while still opening soft due to f-111 characteristics. The downside is that wl must be very low. Again nothing new there, back then we flew 220-250 sqft for a reason. That brings landings to a acceptable level and also makes for a more dull flying experience. Plus it cancels out the lower packvolume advantage of f-111. Back to square one. Add to that a short lifespan. You will end up with admittedly more reliable openings than any zp canopy, more dull flying experience, and less comfortable landings even though canopy is bigger. They have a strip of zp material on top at the leading edge which improves landings and reduce size requirements though - that's the new improvement compared to the old days as I see it.

I fly the Atair Winx150 (zp). I came from a same size PD Storm - and it was a great improvement over the Storm. Openings are zippy and perfect/reliable on heading. Still feels soft. To my surprise, flying experience, landings etc, also a big improvement over the Storm. Took some time to adjust to a more flat glide, at first I thought it was slower, but flying with the same group I quickly noticed that it also have the edge there. The Atair guys really nailed it with this one. I know a few folks that fly the zp Pilot-7 liking that also - only I heard it has brisk openings.

In all I think it is really great for us wingsuiter's that manufacturers now care about us and create canopies customized for our needs.

I disagree, heres why

if you are jumping a wingsuit, you should be able to land a parachute, and know what front risers do.

when Im jumping my wingsuit, Im worried more about my openings. I think the style of flying has a lot to do with it, but Id rather reliably open at 2500 every time than have a zp canopy.

but thats just me

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but Id rather reliably open at 2500 every time than have a zp canopy.

You clearly need to demo a WinX

mccordia

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but Id rather reliably open at 2500 every time than have a zp canopy.

You clearly need to demo a WinX

and Michael Jordan needs to wear rebock

no scotty you are not Michel Jordan haha

to each his own ;)

Just curious to see what people think of the Epicene used for freeflight.
How does she treat ya?

I had an interesting development with my Safire 2 after upsizing from my Swift to an ATC. Many more line twists, unreliable headings and ultimately a pretty nast spinning twist with cutaway: (scroll directly to 2:10)

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https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZMlQxAXR8iJ7Nq6wMPyd2cu8mF8_7S4X

So i’m definitely moving to a 7 cell. I demo’ed a PD horizon and it was a big difference with being stable afer openings.
BTW has anybody heard of the coming Icarus Kraken?

first of all when you upsize wingsuit, you will need better gear allround. Lower wingload, maybe 7cell, open corners, semistowles, etc. You seem to do a flare (which is needed in this suit). At linestretch you immidiately reach for you risers. You also sit uneven in the harness, given your canopy no chance other than to spin up. So... Flare the suit, and when speed horiz and vert has been adjusted to deployment (this is what the flare does basically), you go back to fullflight position and then pull. You go to this position inorder to get clean airflow over the top of the wingsuit. Before speed goes up again, you throw the PC

+100!!

Technique over gear!!!

skow

+100!!

Technique over gear!!!

yep I don't have a 7 cell, open corners or semi stowless and don't have any problems

wasatchrider

***+100!!

Technique over gear!!!

yep I don't have a 7 cell, open corners or semi stowless and don't have any problems

Yep, same here, Colugo2, 9 cell, and closed corners, (I do have a semi-stowless though) and zero problems, but it wasn't always that way, just takes practice.

well guys it is not really helpful to tell people that it is all about skills, gear doesn't matter. It all matters. skills is no 1. Gear is a very close no 2. It all matters. With your current wingsuit, your skillset, your gear as such you have "one combination" that will produce a result sort of consistantly mostly. When you change one of these parameters, suddently people find themselves having linetwists and what not. If the wingsuit was upsized or the new one just just flies much faster than the previous one, that can cause a change for the worse. Skills need to be adapted to this. Setting the gear up optimally can certanly make a positive difference also, foremost the canopy type its wingload and other gear parameters. Telling people otherwise is just stupid. This is very often experiencd by people progressing. We must understand that with the wingsuit, we deploy our canopy in a different environment that it was ment to and developed to function in. Optimizing certain gear aspects has a positive impact, however missing skills or just plain outright too much wingload you can never fix in this way.

On 3/8/2017 at 10:26 PM, birdynamnam said:

 

Hmm the Storm was never really "developed" for wingsuiting, it was developed for CRW. It was then suddenly marketed as made for Wingsuiting by PD (and some sponsored pilots). Someone pls correct me if that is not true.
 

absolutely TRUE

Craig US CReW team back in the days of Storm development

 

 

Depends if you want the canopy for everything, ie fun jumps as well as WS. I did have a Storm for the do it all canopy, had a couple of spicy openings, and then a first version Epicene came up (2nd Hand). I now use that for WS only. Epicene openings have been excellent (except one) compared to my other ZP canopy WS jumps. The benefit of the openings far outweigh the reduced glide and Flare of the canopy.

If you are going to WS long enough and plan on jumping something bigger than a Havok/Funk, then get a F111 7cell WS specific canopy for those jumps. Your reserve packer will thank you.

The container I currently jump allows for a Low bulk 170 main (Epicene) down to a 135 ZP, so I can both fun jump/AFF and WS.

Best of luck.

14 hours ago, Heycharger said:

Depends if you want the canopy for everything, ie fun jumps as well as WS. I did have a Storm for the do it all canopy, had a couple of spicy openings, and then a first version Epicene came up (2nd Hand). I now use that for WS only. Epicene openings have been excellent (except one) compared to my other ZP canopy WS jumps. The benefit of the openings far outweigh the reduced glide and Flare of the canopy.

If you are going to WS long enough and plan on jumping something bigger than a Havok/Funk, then get a F111 7cell WS specific canopy for those jumps. Your reserve packer will thank you.

The container I currently jump allows for a Low bulk 170 main (Epicene) down to a 135 ZP, so I can both fun jump/AFF and WS.

Best of luck.

This thread is 3 years old. Pretty sure the OP is long gone.