DB Cooper

Another problem with him dying that night is no family or friends have come forward. I don't know what to make of that.

As we have seen over the years, people would like to have a family member or a friend be Dan Cooper. I seriously doubt this was a guy living under a bridge somewhere who had lost all contact with other people.

This was a huge media event and a drawing is released of him and he appeared to be familiar with the area so he must have had some local contact. Yet the FBI apparently doesn't get any credible leads.

This makes no sense.

So this makes me question the physical description, the sketch, and the shoe description.

My guess is the FBI took too seriously the descriptions they were given and filtered the guy out.

You know exactly why they never found him - The FBI for some UNKNOWN reason for 36 yrs has propagated the Bing Crosby look-alike composite.
The composites were redone in just a few days - but the FBI even at my urging REFUSES to make the other composites available.

I had to ask more than once to get a print of the one that I use. They did finally send me two pics - one with and one without glasses....

The arrival of those pic was a day I will NEVER forget.
All I had seen prior to the fall of 1998 was the Bing Crosby look-alike and 2 postage stamp size black and white newspaper prints of the composites that I currently use......what I had been telling the FBI was based on the resemblance to these tiny black and white digitize prints!

When I got my mail that day - and opened it...I fell to my knees in my front yard - trembling so hard that I could not stand up...my daughter was visiting and thought I was having a heart attack...ALL I COULD SAY WAS 'LOOK LOOK LOOK, LOOK". She took the prints I was holding up and with one breath said "Oh, My God he really was Cooper".

Until that day my oldest daughter (who never lived with Duane and I) thought I was going off the deep end. Seeing those pics of the composites - I will never ever forget that moment....It was like looking at a photo of Duane as a younger version of the man I knew and was married to for 17 yrs.

I know that you strongly believe it was someone else...but you have not walked in my shoes - heard what I heard - and experienced what I did - and to know who I am and how I have lived my life.
If you knew me you would know that I would never have come forward with this if I was not convinced beyond any doubt. I am not a delusional person nor am I looking for a movie producer as others have done - I have turned things down and I refused to go public until 2000 - 5yrs after Duane died...I did not want to believe it - maybe I was hoping the FBI would be able to put him someplace else like a jail...that didn't happen...the FBI has never investigated the things I have begged them to do - such as FRANK ROACH and ED HORAN.

The FBI's own lack of investigating Duane was the sole reason I went public - The agent of record said "Your husband was NEVER in McNeil" and he was unaware that I was holding in my hands black and white proof that Duane was indeed in that prison and several other prison. The FBI continues to ignore any information I give - because of DNA on a tie they do not KNOW that Cooper actually wore.

They continue to ignore the LOST cigarette butts - the only valid DNA they had in their possession - YOU DON'T SEE THEM MAKING THAT PUBLIC - THIS FORUM IS THE ONLY PLACE YOU HAVE SEEN IT.

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This was a huge media event and a drawing is released of him and he appeared to be familiar with the area so he must have had some local contact. Yet the FBI apparently doesn't get any credible leads.
This makes no sense.

Go back and see what they were using for a composite - not the redo the artist did within days.
Interview the artist and hear what he has to say -
Doug Pasternac did this - and things this artist said were NEVER made PUBLIC except in this forum.
This MAKES no SENSE to ME.

Check-out ROACH AND HORAN and you will find the truth. Connect the dots.

Skyjack71 I don't know whether Duane did it or not. I sort of think Cooper survived the jump so that is one plus for Duane.

I always thought the Bing Crosby sketch looked like Bobby Darin. Maybe the Rat Pack orchestrated this and they were trying to frame Bobby Darin or Bing.

My guess is Cooper knew he couldn't let the FBI get their hands on that briefcase so he couldn't leave it on the airplane or throw it out the back. So he tied the money to himself and then jumped hugging the briefcase. It almost worked. He landed with the briefcase but not the money.

The FBI wasn't going to solve this crime from the evidence so they had to be given a person and then try to match that person to Cooper. The sketch either wasn't good enough for people to make the connection to Cooper or since Cooper made it out, people who knew him knowingly didn't turn him in or his real name was given to the FBI but they didn't make the connection.

In about every cold case I have read about the original investigators had the name of the person, they just failed to make the connection. Usually that failure was due to inertia.

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So he tied the money to himself and then jumped hugging the briefcase. It almost worked. He landed with the briefcase but not the money.

If he was holding on to the briefcase when he jumped, he was not holding on to it after opening shock. Plus, opening shock would have been worse if he were hugging the briefcase, even assuming he could pull successfully with the briefcase in the way.

Mark

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So he tied the money to himself and then jumped hugging the briefcase. It almost worked. He landed with the briefcase but not the money.

If he was holding on to the briefcase when he jumped, he was not holding on to it after opening shock. Plus, opening shock would have been worse if he were hugging the briefcase, even assuming he could pull successfully with the briefcase in the way.

Mark

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Are we 100% sure that the briefcase would have been torn from his grip? I think the answer is yes, but nobdy has calulated the forces as far as I know.

As far as artists drawings go, I have seen MANY criminal cases where the composite drawings prepared by the artist working directly with eye witnesses had very little resemblance to the actual perpetrator once he was captured. One thing that did seem to be done accurately was the hairline though. They usually got that right. After a while, especially in a notorious case, the drawing BECOMES, in the minds of the public and even some of the investigators, the actual image of the person who did the crime. If it isn't accurate, the criminal must breathe a real sigh of relief. He can go out in public without much worry.

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Another problem with him dying that night is no family or friends have come forward. I don't know what to make of that.

As we have seen over the years, people would like to have a family member or a friend be Dan Cooper. I seriously doubt this was a guy living under a bridge somewhere who had lost all contact with other people.

This was a huge media event and a drawing is released of him and he appeared to be familiar with the area so he must have had some local contact. Yet the FBI apparently doesn't get any credible leads.

This makes no sense.

So this makes me question the physical description, the sketch, and the shoe description.

My guess is the FBI took too seriously the descriptions they were given and filtered the guy out.

People whose concept of law enforcement and parachute operations comes from Hollywood are guaranteed to have a skewed concept of both fields of endeavor. Put them together, and you have nothing that resembles reality either way.

Bill Kurtis did a show on Lee Harvey Oswald some time back, and he addressed the conspiracy theorists in his assessment. One point that he made is that any of the conspiracy theories relied on the assumption that organizations with a solid track record of bungling operations and having their cover blown at every turn managed to orchestrate - and keep secret - the most complex and high-profile operation imaginable. It just doesn't wash.

Similarly, the husband of the OP is someone who could and did screw up everything he touched. The idea that he organized and pulled off an operation such as Cooper's, and never got turned by a confederate, is so unlikely as to be unworthy of consideration. It's like Herbie the Love Bug winning the 24 hours of LeMans - good for Walt Disney, but not much else.

There is the miniscule chance that whatever clueless individual exited a jet, at night, in lousy weather, with an arbitrary spot over heavily forested mountains (and the odd river), without appropriate navigation/survival gear and so forth, managed to land uninjured and get to civilization before succumbing to exposure. I have seen stranger things happen, but I sure as hell would not bank on it.

It has something to do with drunks, fools and small children.

The problem is that this is the kind of action that only a consummate loser would claim as the basis for bragging rights. Enter the spouse of the OP.

The idea that this guy was recruited "Dirty Dozen" style to be a Smoke Jumper is laughable. There is good reason why records of such a program are so elusive.

For all the people who think it no big deal to parachute in the dark into an unknown location, I recommend trying a jump or two at night into a KNOWN location. Then have someone drop you off (with proper survival gear, of course) in some wilderness without maps or compass some time.

Been there, done that.

I suspect that, if you have undergone even the most controlled versions of these experiences, you will consider the various options with a significant degree of newfound skepticism.

In any event, the claims that have been made so far may not be bullshit, but they sound suspiciously similar.

Blue skies,

Winsor

But my theory still is possible.
You see, I don't believe the FBI or the USAF got the exit point (or rather exit window) wrong. I just think they never found him. Later and not long after the jump someone found a dead body with lots of money on it. They removed the money (and maybe buried the rest) and hid the money some distance from where they found Cooper. They were just waiting for the heat to cool off before going back for the money.
Only problem was when they went back for the money it had been washed away by a storm. That's why they found the money near the river.

This is the only way I can put the money where it was found.

I am curious as to why nobody mentions mobile radio's as a possibility? I am to young to know the state of PMR in the early 70's but young enough and from a background where hand-helds had good range 2-3miles on the ground and small enough to be highly portable (pre-mobile phone days).

A big speculative "if" but could he have co-ordinated a drop with someone on the ground using radio? range is hugely extended with height and a 20 mile "line of sight" is possible with a plane at altitude. Potential scenario is that IF he/they knew the flight path someone could "spot" for him even without a visual cue through the noise of the plane passing overhead?

Glad to see the forum reviving. For sure Winsor is right about the odds. Although I want Cooper to have survived, and cling to the slim chance that he did, that wish doesn't alter the cold hard facts: night jump, cold, rainy, high speed exit, unfamiliar gear, unsleeved canopy, unknown terrain below exit, attached stuff flopping around wildly and possibly obscuring ripcord handle, fear, panic, etc etc.

If I were betting even odds, I'd bet that Cooper died that night. I think his death would have been from a no pull, not a landing injury. I think if he deployed he landed alive, maybe injured, but not fatally injured. Pilots very often survived nighttime ejection and landing in rugged territory. That phase has little to do with survival training. Staying alive after landing and finding your way to help has plenty to do with physical condition and training.

With 200K possibly sitting in the woods you can bet a lot of locals were looking for Cooper's body. Vultures would almost certainly find a decomposing corpse. They could be your feathered search planes, better sensing gear, better flight characteristics and almost unlimited endurance. I think there is a good chance that if Cooper died, his body was found. There were no Vultures circling the money or the door placard and they were found. A body would have a fleet of black feathered recon aircraft orbiting the impact site for many days. That would attract attention and could be seen from a considerable distance.

I think Cooper lost part of the money during his jump, but not all of it. I think if his body were found with money, the money would be taken home or to some other protected place, not buried in the woods. I think the found money got to where it was discovered without any post jump human transport. That means the 727 track map might be inaccurate, but it wouldnt be the first time such a thing has happened. We are NOT looking at a PPI radar screen shot. We are looking at a document prepared by a person and they may have had bad data, insufficient data or made mistakes.

I hope Sluggo and Ckret and the other sleuths put aside the past and return to this now peaceful forum. Come on guys, give it another chance. This is primarily entertainment, but in the process of having fun we might figure something out that eluded the original investigators. PEACE!

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But my theory still is possible.
You see, I don't believe the FBI or the USAF got the exit point (or rather exit window) wrong. I just think they never found him. Later and not long after the jump someone found a dead body with lots of money on it. They removed the money (and maybe buried the rest) and hid the money some distance from where they found Cooper. They were just waiting for the heat to cool off before going back for the money.
Only problem was when they went back for the money it had been washed away by a storm. That's why they found the money near the river.

This is the only way I can put the money where it was found.

This theory seems to fit with Skyjack71's husband, but in a different way.

Look at it this way. He -may- have been the contact person on the ground (whether planned or accidental). Fits that he has -part- of the profile tilted towards him, but not all of it. Duane -wasn't- DB Cooper. He was his accomplice.

He may have been the one who either before or after the incident studied the terrain and the story of the hijacking. That's why he appeared to be an expert to Jo. The book he read...not about HIM, but about DB Cooper...the man who's money he obtained. DB died on impact. Duane reaped the reward.

Then to test to see if the FBI had any knowledge or leads in the case, he returned to the location and 'planted' the money found in 1980. The FBI bit, and bit hard. They searched and revealed the knowledge they -did- have to the public and Duane saw they were still off track. He may have smiled and realized that he was home free.

Just a theory, but after reading all the posts since Jo's original request for info, this theory seems to hold a little water.

ltdiver

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I am curious as to why nobody mentions mobile radio's as a possibility? I am to young to know the state of PMR in the early 70's but young enough and from a background where hand-helds had good range 2-3miles on the ground and small enough to be highly portable (pre-mobile phone days).

A big speculative "if" but could he have co-ordinated a drop with someone on the ground using radio? range is hugely extended with height and a 20 mile "line of sight" is possible with a plane at altitude. Potential scenario is that IF he/they knew the flight path someone could "spot" for him even without a visual cue through the noise of the plane passing overhead?

CB walkie talkies were widely available in 1971 and had RF power ranges of 0.1 to 5 watts in the 27 MHz band. Range HUGELY depended on terrain between the two units. In 1963 when I was a kid I had a Lafayette 0.1 watt single channel CB walkie talkie. It wasn't the toy type, it had 10 transistors and a good double conversion superhet receiver. My friend had one too.

We could get about half a mile in thick forest, but between high hilltops, we once got 9.3 miles and the reception was quite clear. The 5 watt units would have better range. If Cooper had an accomplice positioned on a mountaintop, and Cooper had a line of sight to that peak, it is VERY likely that they could talk to each other for 10 miles or more with cheap (30-80 dollars) CB walkie talkies of that era. That still leaves a serious problem arranging a rendevous since Cooper could probably not tell exactly where he was. Being able to communicate is not the same as being able to locate.

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I hope Sluggo and Ckret and the other sleuths put aside the past and return to this now peaceful forum. Come on guys, give it another chance.

Don't know how long their banning is for, but I agree with you. I hope they return when they can. I miss Ckret's input and even if DB is never found (or the case figured out) I've learned alot just by reading their posts.

ltdiver

"Duane -wasn't- DB Cooper. He was his accomplice."

Even though I personally doubt that was the case, this is exactly the kind of "out of the box" thinking we need here. I never thought of it.

Give us more ltdiver.

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"Duane -wasn't- DB Cooper. He was his accomplice."

Even though I personally doubt that was the case, this is exactly the kind of "out of the box" thinking we need here. I never thought of it.

This possibility actually was raised in the locked thread. It never seemed to gain much traction though.

SafecrackinPLF, Zing, Sluggo Ckret, and all the rest of you guys, come back! If you are locked up in Quade State Penitentiary come back as soon as you are paroled.

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A big speculative "if" but could he have co-ordinated a drop with someone on the ground using radio? range is hugely extended with height and a 20 mile "line of sight" is possible with a plane at altitude. Potential scenario is that IF he/they knew the flight path someone could "spot" for him even without a visual cue through the noise of the plane passing overhead?

Not likely. Assumes the aircraft is exactly on a planned flight route and not left or right of it, so the only variable is how far along the path the aircraft has flown. If there is any crosswind at all, the landing area would not be underneath the aircraft line of flight. The ground person calling for exit would have to estimate the amount of time it would take to stow the radio and walk down the stairs; 30 seconds off would be a mile, in the dark. Spotting from the ground in the daytime when you can see the aircraft is hard enough. At night, using just sound, does not have a high probability of success.

I don't think I've read anywhere that Cooper asked for for the flight path to be adjusted, as it would need to be if he had a particular landing area in mind.

Mark

Is the I-5 corridor north of Portland wilderness?

This was one of the myths perpetuated all these years and was the excuse why his body wasn't found. He jumped and died in the woods to the northeast. Then some of the money is found way to the southwest. Oops.

So now we need a wolf to carry the money bag into the correct drainage area.

As that one guy was pointing out in his posts. The flight path, exit time and money location don't reconcile.

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Is the I-5 corridor north of Portland wilderness?

This was one of the myths perpetuated all these years and was the excuse why his body wasn't found. He jumped and died in the woods to the northeast. Then some of the money is found way to the southwest. Oops.

So now we need a wolf to carry the money bag into the correct drainage area.

As that one guy was pointing out in his posts. The flight path, exit time and money location don't reconcile.

I say go with the solid evidence, the found money. Then work back from that point. If the most likely explanation of how the money ends up there (natural non human transport) requires you to move the flight path, then move it.

I think it is possible that the mapped flight path is waaay off from the path actually flown by NWA 305 that night. I know there is a huge disagreement on that point. Most think the mapped flight path that the FBI used was very accurate. I do not yet share that level of confidence.

Just one slip up, like assuming that the radar antenna installation is centered at the airport, could throw it way off. ATC surveillance radar can be located remotely from the airport and can be corrected for the controller displays to give the airport as the center of the screen. If you were working with raw radar data from the radar installation site you might make a mistake if you thought you were looking at corrected data destined for an airport centered display. There lots of ways that the map could be off, and then again it might be very accurate. Until I know exactly how it was prepared and what data was used, I am not confident that it accurately displayed NWA 305s exact flight path or presumed Cooper exit point.

Show me the money! Ok it was shown. Show me the plane! OK, we have the plot map. Hey, the two don't reconcile, whats up with that??? Show me the most likely explanation. Is it human transport of the money post landing or plane map inaccuracy? That's where we disagree.

Time for SafecrackingPLF, Sluggo, Zing, Ckret and all the others to rejoin the civil peaceful respectful discussion we are having here under Quade's ever-watchful moderator eye. Hey, Patty Hearst got a Presidential pardon, and she robbed a bank in SF and shot out the front of a sporting goods store in LA with a fully automatic carbine. Be a sport Quade, early parole is requested. The prisoners are rehabilitated and meaningful work awaits them, right here.

Show me the most likely explanation.

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Cooper pulled while still on the step, the pilot chute got caught in the vortex vacuum swirling around the stairway recess hole, and got some lines hung up in the door, but not enough so that the air-stair didn't 'pressure bump'

...he was dragged behind the plane flailing around for a while, losing the money over the river.

...until the lines broke, or a small hole was ripped in the back of the 26 or 28 foot round...actually giving it MORE drive.

He headed for the closest city lights where he did a stand up in a bar parking lot, to embarrassed to admit to what might have been, he's been tight lipped & drunk ever since.


Hey... as good a theory as any, right?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

The write-up at crimelibrary says the FBI recalculated the flight path and moved it to the west of I-5 with the jump around Woodland, Washington. And Scott told them he was to the west of their first flight path. I don't know if any of that is true. Maybe they re-penciled the flight path after the money was found.

Of course, if the jump is at Woodland, you still can't get the money upstream. And if you move the flight path that far west then there is no way you can get the plane over to those other watersheds. I believe Scott said he flew just to the west of the Portland airport, which keeps him to the west.

If you have the placard falling out of the plane around the Silver Lake/Toutle area and the plane to the west of I-5, then the money find makes a lot of sense, but the jump must have been later than they thought.

If the original flight path is that far off then they must have been pencilling it in from sombodies notes.