Ban period?

In your opinion how long should a jumper be banned who exited while no lights on?

Intentionally? Inexperienced? Unless it was an experienced jumper willfully disregarding the light I think banning for any length seems pretty harsh.

I don't know about jumping with the jump lights off, but if you intentionally cut away a good main just for the experience, without using a tertiary reserve equipped rig or 3rd parachute attached or getting approval prior, you will get a dressing down by the S&TA, who can implement pretty much whatever punishment is deserved.

The pilot can refuse to fly him if he wants. Its his pilots license not the jumper

husslr187

The pilot can refuse to fly him if he wants. Its his pilots license not the jumper

What could happen to the pilot? Will the pilot get a warning?

swotcox

In your opinion how long should a jumper be banned who exited while no lights on?

Banned from what? Exited from what? What lights?

chuckakers

***In your opinion how long should a jumper be banned who exited while no lights on?

Banned from what? Exited from what? What lights?
A few guys exited first and when it turned to me the green light switched to the red because of the clouds. About 90 sec later the red light turned off and I was supposed to close the door but I thought the light was broken so I exited.
Also when red off the guy by the exit door pointed at the door wanted to me helping to close the door. But I completely misunderstood I thought he's giving me a good to go gesture so I just gone.
BTW The airplane was level flight with reduced power and airspeed and flaps.

swotcox

***The pilot can refuse to fly him if he wants. Its his pilots license not the jumper

What could happen to the pilot? Will the pilot get a warning?

FAA fines for you and the pilot is a possibility. If the pilot continues to allow jumper to go through clouds they can lose their license.

swotcox

******In your opinion how long should a jumper be banned who exited while no lights on?

Banned from what? Exited from what? What lights?
A few guys exited first and when it turned to me the green light switched to the red because of the clouds. About 90 sec later the red light turned off and I was supposed to close the door but I thought the light was broken so I exited.
Also when red off the guy by the exit door pointed at the door wanted to me helping to close the door. But I completely misunderstood I thought he's giving me a good to go gesture so I just gone.
BTW The airplane was level flight with reduced power and airspeed and flaps.

Good thing the red light was because of clouds and not because of a plane flying below you.

Really? You would come here and ask how long your discipline should last. I'm pretty sure that would depend nearly completely on your past record and your relationship with the person making the decision.

It's quite possible you have exhibited bad judgement in the past. Looking for validation or support here is very questionable behavior.

gowlerk

Really? You would come here and ask how long your discipline should last. I'm pretty sure that would depend nearly completely on your past record and your relationship with the person making the decision.

It's quite possible you have exhibited bad judgement in the past. Looking for validation or support here is very questionable behavior.

Thanks for your advice.
Next time make sure replying me, not husslr187.

swotcox

***Really? You would come here and ask how long your discipline should last. I'm pretty sure that would depend nearly completely on your past record and your relationship with the person making the decision.

It's quite possible you have exhibited bad judgement in the past. Looking for validation or support here is very questionable behavior.

Thanks for your advice.
Next time make sure replying me, not husslr187.

Well, clicking on 'reply' to the last post in the thread is common practice on here.

But to your question:

You intentionally jumped out over a cloud layer after the green light had turned to red and then the red light had gone out?

I was taught right away when jumping from planes with the red/green lights (jumped from 182s for a long time before getting to a bigger plane) that if the green light goes out, do not jump.

Period.

There's a reason the pilot turned the light off. Depending on how strict your DZ is about clouds, you may have thought that it was just because of clouds and it wasn't thick enough to stop you.

What if there had been traffic under the cloud?
And the pilot turned the light off because of that?

If I was in charge (and I am not and haven't been in that position for a while now), your past history and attitude at the time of the incident would play a fairly large part.

But you'd be on the ground for at least a little while.

You jumped into conditions you couldn't see.
You jumped when you were told (via the green light going out) specifically not to.

So...

What'd ya get?

swotcox

In your opinion how long should a jumper be banned who exited while no lights on?

8 1/2 years.

Quote

Well, clicking on 'reply' to the last post in the thread is common practice on here.

Good to know.
But emmm... seems you didn't follow this common thing yourself?
/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4899262

My honest opinion - take this as a learning opportunity, accept your time on the ground and return to the sky a safer, more aware skydiver.

I've seen some very experienced jumpers take some bench time, either their choice or the choice of their S&TA.

So how long were you grounded?

I'm not sure you are asking the right question here.

How long would it take for you to realize: "Man, I really f...d up! I could have hurt/killed myself or others (think of the scenario of a plane underneath, for example). I really need to change my awareness/attitude at the time of exit."

It sounds like you are a newer jumper. It sounds like you were overwhelmed and got confused during jump run. It sounds like you did not purposefully jump when there was no "clear" signal. That may be somewhat understandable. A lot is going on at that moment (Assuming you were honest in your description of what was going on in your mind, when you jumped)
BUT: If you haven't felt a little jolt in your heart, when you realized what you've done and what could have happened as a result (did you even look down before getting out? How did you get out so quickly that no one could have prevented you from doing so? After 90 seconds, did you even know you were still at a proper spot to reach the landing area? Did you land out?)
If you're not thinking: "Damn I absolutely need to change my awareness and attitude before jumping out of a plane" and if you haven't convinced the people at your DZ that you are seriously intending to do that, I don't see how any length of time of being banned from jumping would help.

If your attitude is, that this is just some "penalty" for breaking a rule and you just need to wait it out, then it's not helping...no matter how long.

(Just my opinion, of course. I'm no S&TA, DZO or Pilot. You really need to talk to them at your DZ and get clear what they need from you, to get a feeling that it is actually safe--and in your own interest--to let you jump again.)

swotcox

In your opinion how long should a jumper be banned who exited while no lights on?

Depends on whether you are a low time jumper and whether you have heeded advice or admonition in the past. If you’ve been unreceptive to criticism in the past then a verbal warning would accomplish nothing.

You made assumptions about the lights being inoperative. You misunderstood or disregarded communication and jumped over who-knows-what. Both pretty egregious errors. Listen up kid! The life you save may be your own.

Edit to add...
Grounding allows you to eat your humble pie, buy your mea-culpa beer and share your new tribal knowledge with the community. Banning or banishment is far greater punishment usually reserved for those unwilling to understand their repeated failures despite coaching and counseling.

swotcox

Quote

Well, clicking on 'reply' to the last post in the thread is common practice on here.

Good to know.
But emmm... seems you didn't follow this common thing yourself?
/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4899262

Nope. I'm kinda old. And "old school."

I find it keeps the discussion clearer if I reply to the actual post I'm replying to.

You didn't answer my question:

What'd ya get?

Take your lumps. Learn and live.

90sec? Seriously? The red light went off after 90sec of the pilot looking for a hole and you assumed that what he really meant was to turn on the green light? Were you at a special event for deaf and blind skydivers so you were unable to ask if it was okay to exit, or stick your head out and see the clouds?

Your story sounds fishy. I suspect you got a punishment that not only fit this event but took into account past behavior.

Anyway, if it were my DZ and it was a first time offense? Sit down for the day and talk it over with an instructor. If there was a repeated pattern and failure to take responsibility, then you'd be shown the door and other local DZs would get a call warning them about you.

DanG

90sec? Seriously? The red light went off after 90sec of the pilot looking for a hole and you assumed that what he really meant was to turn on the green light? Were you at a special event for deaf and blind skydivers so you were unable to ask if it was okay to exit, or stick your head out and see the clouds?

Your story sounds fishy. I suspect you got a punishment that not only fit this event but took into account past behavior.

Anyway, if it were my DZ and it was a first time offense? Sit down for the day and talk it over with an instructor. If there was a repeated pattern and failure to take responsibility, then you'd be shown the door and other local DZs would get a call warning them about you.

I'm not a great believer in bans, long ones just make the jumper uncurrent and more likely to screw up again.

But your next 5 jumps would be hop and pops from minimum altitude. No higher than 4 grand anyway.

That'll learn ya.

two weeks

I never been a situation like this before. I didn't expect that the door would close again. All that in my mind was that I need to go as quickly as possible cause there were many others waiting behind me.
I did not look down. I pulled at 5k and reached holding area at 3k.

Thank you sir. Thank you for replying.

two weeks

I was new at that DZ. And if is't only one day grounded I'd love to take it.