Trick with tandem

Nicely put!

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So basically, it's a big taboo to do this kind of trick with a first time jumper right?

But it is ok if all of the people involved are experienced jumpers and know the risks right? I mean if they die, they knew the risks, so it should be ok?

I've been reading this for a while and keeping my mouth (keyboard) shut until now. Note my experience.
I guess it depends on how you define "ok". Is it ok to die for this stunt? Is it ok for others to die for this stunt? I fully understand and accept the risks in this sport. That doesn't mean I'm going to take unnecessary or stupid or avoidable chances. Like Normiss, I want to come back tomorrow and jump again.
The only way I can see this stunt being ok is if all the jumpers are highly experienced. The only reason I can see would be for a movie stunt. (And big$$). And even then it would be very carefully choreographed, and rehearsed, and broken down into manageable segments. Like the "Get Smart" jump.
Sangi, do you even understand the risks in this "trick"? The possibilities for accidental deployment, entanglement, collisions? And mostly, the chance that anything going wrong will probably become a catastrophic disaster ending in multiple fatalities?

I'm trying not to slam you too hard, but the lack of understanding you show is frightening. As was said earlier, wanting to do exciting things is not a bad thing, but doing them without understanding the risks is extremely dangerous. Both to you and those around you.

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[How did you get into this sport?

By finishing AFF.

You're not finished.

If you look at the pic of the guy standing on the tandem, you'll see that he's standing on the main D-bag of a Strong tandem rig, the kind with the drouge that does not collapse when the release is pulled.

If the drouge was released, I wonder if the dbag would snap his legs, or just slip between them, and jam the guy in the nuts? Either way sucks, but the latter would be a lot funnier.

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As was said earlier, wanting to do exciting things is not a bad thing, but doing them without understanding the risks is extremely dangerous. Both to you and those around you.

I don't know where you get that from. I didn't say I'm going to do this.

I'm just saying it looks awesome and if people know the risks and still do it, it's their choice, they shouldn't be bashed for it by most of you.

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You're not finished.

I know, we're all learning all the time during our lifes

You've just restored some of my faith in you.

I definitely see your point that experience jumpers doing a stunt like this can get away with it and there's many more dangerous things that happen on a daily basis. And as others have pointed out, the manufacturers of tandem gear prohibit this kind of "stunt." It's easy to understand why the manufacturers don't like it. I somewhat agree with you... I don't particularly care what a bunch of experienced jumpers do with their own tandem rigs. This could probably be done over and over again with no incident. But... There's always a but...

What you might not see is that what's bad for the tandem manufacturers is bad for us as well. What we don't want is for tandem gear manufacturers to get out of the business. Imagine if Joe Skydiver got killed while riding as a tandem passenger during a stunt like that. Strong gets sued by his widow, because afterall it was a premature deployment of the gear that caused the fatality, right? Strong gets tired of $10 million lawsuits and says screw it, we'll focus on military equipment. You see where this is going. I'm sure you can see how that would affect all of us, right?

You're seeing that people, especially tandem instructors, get very passionate about tandems no matter what the circumstances are. I took the tandem course and got my rating just for fun earlier this year. Really getting to understand tandems changes your perspective. Stick around a few years and I bet you'll change your opinion on this too.

You can stand on my back for $10,000 any day you want!

Dave

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I definitely see your point that experience jumpers doing a stunt like this can get away with it and there's many more dangerous things that happen on a daily basis. And as others have pointed out, the manufacturers of tandem gear prohibit this kind of "stunt." It's easy to understand why the manufacturers don't like it. I somewhat agree with you... I don't particularly care what a bunch of experienced jumpers do with their own tandem rigs. This could probably be done over and over again with no incident. But... There's always a but...

What you might not see is that what's bad for the tandem manufacturers is bad for us as well. What we don't want is for tandem gear manufacturers to get out of the business. Imagine if Joe Skydiver got killed while riding as a tandem passenger during a stunt like that. Strong gets sued by his widow, because afterall it was a premature deployment of the gear that caused the fatality, right? Strong gets tired of $10 million lawsuits and says screw it, we'll focus on military equipment. You see where this is going. I'm sure you can see how that would affect all of us, right?

You're seeing that people, especially tandem instructors, get very passionate about tandems no matter what the circumstances are. I took the tandem course and got my rating just for fun earlier this year. Really getting to understand tandems changes your perspective. Stick around a few years and I bet you'll change your opinion on this too.

You can stand on my back for $10,000 any day you want!

Dave

Great reply, I never thought about the manufacturer going out of business thing, good point.

And it's not just a hypothetical situation. There ARE parachute equipment manufacturers that have dropped the sport gear side of the business completely.

Which is why if you do see stunts like playing with the drogue, atmonauti tandems and so on, they're generally done in not-so-lawsuit-crazy-Europe

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[How did you get into this sport?

By finishing AFF.

Hey, good questions. Sorry everyone jumped in your shit so hard. A lot of nuance is lost on the internet. I don't think you're a crackhead, sounds like you just want to know the "why's" behind things.

Agreed.
Equally as hard and frustrating trying to explain those "whys".

One of my colleagues from Lithuania:

http://www.tandem.aero/Tandem/The_Modern_way_of_Tandem_flying.html

Please get back to us with the results of the drogue-less head down when the drogue and/or the main explodes on deployment.

Are these the same folks providing your instruction in skydiving?

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Please get back to us with the results of the drogue-less head down when the drogue and/or the main explodes on deployment.

Are these the same folks providing your instruction in skydiving?

He surely doesn't go head down all the way till deployment, just a little bit, then release drogue, slow down and then deploy

Hes only a tandem master (and a freeflyer) at the moment. The people who were my AFF instructors (almost all of them) are not TI, only one which was my main instructor in the end, but he doesn't do any of that new tandem stuff, however he does do low hookturns, because hes not used to swooping (hes really old school type of guy, been in the sport for a long time, but hes very awesome, as in personality).
I don't really get any instructions to be honest. I'm so light and fall so slow that nobody wants to jump with me, so learning how to do belly stuff is pretty much pointless if I'm alone all the time, so I just focus on FF, doing atmo, trying back flying, back tracking, trying to get into SF, trying to do a very steep atmo angle to get as much similar to HD as possible. So yeah I'm basically a self learner, watching all those FF movies and trying to replicate the stuff...

Ya know........................

My mother, and the moderators always said that if I can't say anything nice not to say anything at all..

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however he does do low hookturns, because hes not used to swooping

That makes alot of sence

Which is why I listen to Chad's mother.

Haven't been following this thread as closely as others, but if I can donate my two cents here:

I had the (privileged???) opportunity recently to see a tandem wrapped in it it's drogue. Not going to say where , when, or who, but I was doing video when the TM pitched the drogue at the exact WRONG moment, and before I could really comprehend it they were wrapped up and in serious sh*t.

At my experience level, there was no way in hell I was going to try and chase them down and attempt anything, despite it being pretty evident from my standpoint that they were tangled and helpless. I did my best to follow it hoping I wasn't filming the last moment of their lives, and at around 4k, they rolled out and got the main deployed.

After the passenger made it very clear that he understood it was a "freak" sort of thing, he refused a refund as he said all parties involved did their jobs. Except for me of course, because I "forgot to turn the camera on." The tape from the camera was magically turned into fairy dust.

The point being, seeing two people wrapped in a drogue was enough to instill an unprecedented level of respect for the airspace and equipment of a tandem. I don't care who the TI is, who the student is or how good i or anybody else is, I would never want to see myself in that same position... I might not get that lucky break, ya know? I treat the drogue like a case of TNT, for the sake of all parties involved.

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Please get back to us with the results of the drogue-less head down when the drogue and/or the main explodes on deployment.

Are these the same folks providing your instruction in skydiving?

No need to go all the way to Lithuania for head down tandems...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB3usnuj4pA

Dave

Wow those guys are the coolest anywhere.

I've seen it before, insane speed to set the drogue - creates a rather interesting body position to say the least. Also nice that they made the skydive for the student...and we wonder why we have such low retention in the sport.

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You're not finished.

I know, we're all learning all the time during our lifes

Most people are...unless they figure that they know it all.