This guy insisted he was ok to jump a Velo

Quote

Thats a DZO issue.

An unqualified idiot flying a hotrod canopy in the sky with other jumpers is EVERYONE'S issue.

You're either trolling for a thread hijack or just another one of "those".

Either way your opinions are irrelevant to those of us who take safety seriously and h.p. canopy pilots - myself included - who understand performance flying and how it effects the rest of our community.

I agree 100% with every word you said.

A while back, USPA asked DZO's for their input regarding what we were doing to address High performance landings at our perspective DZ's. I wrote a letter with my input.

First and foremost, a minimum jump number requirement (let's say 500 for arguments sake). Secondly, once you reach the jump number requirement, each DZO or S&TA at their DZ will determine by watching your canopy skills during this time frame to determine if you are a "candidate" to be a high performance canopy pilot, i.e. do you make proper decisions, not endangering the lives of yourself and others. Once you have been deemed a candidate, the DZO or S&TA will sign off your "candidate" card so that you can attend a High Performance canopy course, taught by skilled and licensed canopy instructors (Rated Course). After successful completion of the course, you are now the holder of an official :Canopy Pilot License. This endorsement would appear on your USPA card. This doesn't mean that you are cleared for 720's and attending swoop comps, this license is your license to learn. If you are not using due care and sticking with the guidelines set forth by the course, you can receive disciplinary action by the S&TA..progressive discipline: verbal warning, remedial training, suspension and finally revocation of your license for continued violations.

This way when 'DUMBASS" appears at my DZ,and when his gear is inspected while filling out our waiver and we notice his "Backpack" size container, he will then be asked to show his proficiency and skill level to fly his canopy by showing his High performance Canopy License. NO LICENSE, NO JUMP! If a DZO allows this person to jump that canopy without documented proof that they are capable, then they should be held negligent, in the case of an accident.

I have seen too many "low time" jumpers leave my DZ and go to another so that they will be allowed to jump their tiny canopies. These people are endangering the lives of everyone else that is in the air with them.

Example: I have a drivers license, does it mean I can drive a semi truck full of hazardous materials? No..I have to have special training and a license to prove it. I have a pilot license to fly single engine planes only...if i want to fly a jet...special training and license, twin engines, special training and license...etc.

I have an AFF, Tandem, Static Line , Pro and Tandem I/E, all special training I had to get to receive these licenses all required by USPA to conduct such activities> I am required to receive continuous training in order to keep my licenses current. As much as the USPA enjoys charging us for these licenses, here is another license that they can make more money from.

I here the term.."we should just police ourselves" IT AIN'T WORKING FOLKS"!!!!! The number one killer in our sport..Dying under open parachutes..

Until USPA stops turning their heads and closing their eyes, this pattern will only worsen!!!!

BTW..my canopy..Velo 96, years in sport 17, 11,000 jumps...

Golf claps, bowling speeches....Are other sports this friendly to their morons? I think not.

Not trolling Chuck. You saw the results you got from "talking" to him. Didn't do a damn thing. I say don't waste your breath and go right to the person that can do something about it. Thats the only way you can make a difference. I don't think talking to an idiot makes you someone that takes safety seriously. Somebody that takes safety seriously would do something that would yeild a positive outcome.

Good post.

To USPA......Make it so.

Quote

Quote

Quote

don't understand all the concern. Its not like he isn't aware. Its his choice. If he wasn't aware then educating him would be the correct thing to do. As long as he doesn't hurt anyone else who cares. I think the golf clapping was quite appropriate. Skygodding on about it won't change anything.

I take it you'll have no problem personally scraping the next Whizzkid up off the ground and filling in the divots.

Your attitude is exactly why the situation has got where it has today. People need to start speaking out loud and clear if we want to cut the body count.

I don't think its my place to tell some idiot that he is an idiot. If he doesn't get it he doesn't get it. Do I think what he is doing is right, hell no. But its not my place to tell him. I'd say something the the DZO or S&TA Thats their job. My job is to get off the load that he's on and join the clappers.

Hey what if he's the First Man Down and a bunch of Students/low count folks are following him on his downwind landing?

i appeciated all ur advice chuck, i will be putting up my velo for a later time in my skydiving career and hope to always be ur friend. i never intended to cause so much trouble.

Chad Jennings

DAVE I am new! And I check my altimeter after getting stable from leaving the plane to see how much altitude it takes me to get stable. Also check it through out my skydive. Glad it gives you the giggles.

Quote

DAVE I am new! And I check my altimeter after getting stable from leaving the plane to see how much altitude it takes me to get stable. Also check it through out my skydive. Glad it gives you the giggles.

Daves comment was aimed at someone with 300 odd jumps who shouldn't need to be looking at his altimeter so often. He thinks it indicates that the jumper is not quite as capable as he thinks he is, especially if he is jumping a canopy that is too hot for him to handle.

At your stage you are doing it right. Keep it up.

Quote

DAVE I am new! And I check my altimeter after getting stable from leaving the plane to see how much altitude it takes me to get stable. Also check it through out my skydive. Glad it gives you the giggles.

You doing that does not give me the giggles, that's an expected behavior for a new jumper, and not one I have a problem with. What you're doing now will build your internal clock so as time goes on you'll be in tune with the progress of the jump without having to look as often.

The jumper in question here claims to have 300 jumps and feels as if he is qualifed to jump the same canopy I do, and at the same WL. I can tell you from the last 1000 jumps I put on this canopy, there's nothing beginner or intermediate about it, and it's not even a great choice for some experts. For reference, I had 4000 jumps, with 3000 of them on a eliptical canopy loaded at 1.9 before I started jumping a Velo, and I found it to be considerably higher performance than what I was used to jumping. It's an impressive wing, and not one to be taken lightly.

When a jumper with that level of experience and (flase) sense of confidence exhibits behaviors similar to yours, that makes me giggle.

Wanted to add To the FACT according to USPA its not us new people or A license people dying its the ones with D license Do you think that may be a result of being to COOL to check your altimeter? New and do not know shit about skydiving. Just thought your comment was surprisingly arrogant.

Quote

Not trolling Chuck. You saw the results you got from "talking" to him. Didn't do a damn thing. I say don't waste your breath and go right to the person that can do something about it.

We did. That's how management found out about it.

Talking to him had two purposes. First, if enough people "in the know" express their opinions - like the half dozen accomplished swoopers who ranted on him - he may begin to realize that stupid isn't cool, it's just stupid.

Second and more important, hearing those same people rant against his stupidity has an effect on other not-so bold jumpers who might be inclined to progress quicker than they should but don't want to find themselves catching the same crap he did from those they want to emulate.

Peer pressure is often more effective than regulation from above, especially when delivered in the presence of those the offender was hoping to impress.

Quote

i appeciated all ur advice chuck, i will be putting up my velo for a later time in my skydiving career and hope to always be ur friend. i never intended to cause so much trouble.

Chad Jennings

Thank you, Chad. That's the best move you could have made.

I appreciate your candor and I'm sure everyone else does too. We are all about helping people progress, and sometimes that includes the need to say some things that people don't want to hear.

Learn, take logical steps, and most importantly build a solid skill set for high performance canopy flight and you will be surprised how quickly you can be safe under a cross-braced canopy.

Thanks for butching up.

Well it seems like he got the message...

Quote

Well it seems like he got the message...

Yes it does and I for his sake I couldn't be happier. Who knows, maybe we'll see him on the podium someday at the swoop nationals.

Quote

Wanted to add To the FACT according to USPA its not us new people or A license people dying its the ones with D license Do you think that may be a result of being to COOL to check your altimeter? New and do not know shit about skydiving. Just thought your comment was surprisingly arrogant.

Amy, no one is immune from death in this sport, its something we are well aware of and sadly well acquainted with.

Over the years we've made it pretty safe for newbies like you...newbies used to feature a lot in incident reports, now not so much.

Daves response may seem arrogant to you, but believe me it comes from simple weariness from seeing people who try to go too far too fast and who crash and burn. Dave and the others you see on here are the one who have to pick up the pieces when people crash and burn, and I can tell you its not a nice thing to have to do.

We tend to get a bit blunt about it. If you are around long enough, and mess up through stupidity, someone will likely give you a blasting. It happens to everyone sooner or later. You need to be able to handle a bit of blunt, to the point talk.

This isn't tiddleywinks we play. You can die, easily and quickly, and it might not even be your fault.

Sit back, listen, and learn....

Quote

i appeciated all ur advice chuck, i will be putting up my velo for a later time in my skydiving career and hope to always be ur friend. i never intended to cause so much trouble.

Chad Jennings

Good thinking. Well done.

You might have avoided the fate of a well known guy called Sangi, who used to post here....he's been pretty quiet for a while now...multiple smashed bones have slowed him down quite a lot.!.

Quote

I don't understand all the concern. Its not like he isn't aware.

1. He's an unguided meat missile in the pattern and landing area that poses a danger to others.

2. At many DZs the fun stops to accommodate ambulances and helicopters and a fatality can mean no jumping for the rest of the day. Even if he doesn't hurt anyone else he's likely to put a damper on peoples' weekend which is rude.

Quote

Quote

i appeciated all ur advice chuck, i will be putting up my velo for a later time in my skydiving career and hope to always be ur friend. i never intended to cause so much trouble.

Chad Jennings

Thank you, Chad. That's the best move you could have made.

I appreciate your candor and I'm sure everyone else does too. We are all about helping people progress, and sometimes that includes the need to say some things that people don't want to hear.

Learn, take logical steps, and most importantly build a solid skill set for high performance canopy flight and you will be surprised how quickly you can be safe under a cross-braced canopy.

Thanks for butching up.

Some direct him to the Sangi thread for some 1st hand advice on why most of us think its a bad idea.

thx for posting up my youtube link, my reserve video has shot up to 700 views!! :)

WTF? Your jump # goes 300, 185, 285..

Soooo you put the Velo away and went to what?

Quote

Quote

i appeciated all ur advice chuck, i will be putting up my velo for a later time in my skydiving career and hope to always be ur friend. i never intended to cause so much trouble.

Chad Jennings

Thank you, Chad. That's the best move you could have made.

I appreciate your candor and I'm sure everyone else does too. We are all about helping people progress, and sometimes that includes the need to say some things that people don't want to hear.

Learn, take logical steps, and most importantly build a solid skill set for high performance canopy flight and you will be surprised how quickly you can be safe under a cross-braced canopy.

Thanks for butching up.

Thank you both for doing the right thing

Waiting on USPA/FAA/DZO's after 25 yr's isn't the answer.

Attaboy to both chuck & chad

Hey Bro . It's better to get bitched out in this forum than it is to be in the other one where you can't reply ever. You just saved yourself. Awesome.

Quote

Hey what if he's the First Man Down and a bunch of Students/low count folks are following him on his downwind landing?

Very good point. I saw an injury last summer from a confused jumper setting up into the wind, head on with little miss "first one down" . . . downwind.