This guy insisted he was ok to jump a Velo

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this the same guy??

Thanks for posting that link, it's a fun video. I always get a kick out of newbies who jump out of the plane and then check their altimeter 2 seconds out of the door. News flash pal, you're 100 ft lower than when you jumped 2 seconds ago.

It's also fun to watch the rapid-fire alti checks right down to pull altitude. I guess if you can't figure out that you have a few sconds and then pull, you could just 'lock on' to the thing and wait for your pull altitude to come up, but I'll never understand the need to look, turn it away, look again, turn it away, look again, turn it away, and then pull.

Beyond that, if a simple brake fire is going to force the guy to chop and dump his reserve on his back, he has no business jumping a Velo. Of course, having 300 jumps, and lying to the DZO is aslo a good sign he might be in over his head.

Bit of a stupid thing to be suggesting that he shouldn't have cut away from a 'simple' brake fire.. He didnt have a great deal of height left and under a spining main (regardless off why the spin was caused), armchair quarterbacking his decision will lead other newish jumpers to think 'well Im not meant to chop a brakefire or I will get teased'...

Even if he had cleared the other brake the canopy might have been spinning too hard with twists to salvage it before he impacted the ground.
So I say he made totally the right decision as he walked away from it.

Whether he will walk away from jumping a velo at 2:1 with 300 jumps.... maybe for a while. But as has been said his bell is gonna get rung for sure.

In reply to>>We tend to get a bit blunt about it. If you are around long enough, and mess up through stupidity, someone will likely give you a blasting. It happens to everyone sooner or later. You need to be able to handle a bit of blunt, to the point talk.

This isn't tiddleywinks we play. You can die, easily and quickly, and it might not even be your fault.

Sit back, listen, and learn....

Will do thank you great advice!!

Prefer to shut up and listen at 40 jumps I have a lot to learn and i much prefer the blunt advice I have received at my dropzone and on this site on my quest to learn judgement
Sticks and stones and the ground hurt >>> Words regardless of how harsh they may sound I hear them and can only help me.

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Soooo you put the Velo away and went to what?

JPX, what else ?

I'm late to the party, but: great job.

It can be hard to do the right thing when the tone of the criticism is so harsh, most people get defensive. But the tone is harsh because the realities are harsh, and the critics have seen them first hand.

It must be even harder to come on here and say that, and I salute you for doing it. Just as Dave and Chuck's postings are mostly for the benefit of other new people reading it, yours will benefit people in the future too.

If we meet somewhere, let me buy you a beer.

Chad (and other newie pilots) read through this thread please, this is a lad who though he was ready for a small canopy, he SWORE that we was conservative and could handle the wing.

Who's selling these canopies to people?

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Who's selling these canopies to people?

I get why you ask this question. But really, who cares. We'll never stop the sales! I'm not sure we even have the right... free society and all. However, as seen in this thread, we can stop unqualified individuals from jumping them. Agree or disagree with the tone that was used, but the message got thru. Looks like there’s no need to update my “Bounce Bingo” cards….

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Agree or disagree with the tone that was used, but the message got thru.

Old school works. Wish I could get that through the heads of the new school types.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Thats a DZO issue.

Sure... until he jumps out of your plane, goes in, the family sues everybody, including the pilot or owner of the plane, because it must be someone else's fault that poor little johnny died.

I'm glad that his name is posted. I won't get in a plane with him. If he has that little regard for his own safety, he likely has far less for mine.

Edited to add: Just read the rest of the thread. Chad, glad you are putting the velo away, what are you jumping instead?

it amazes me that so many ppl talk shit bout someone they have never met and know nothing about. ask any jumper that jumps with me, they will tell u how safe and aware that i really am...

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...you and I keep track of our altitude with that little clock in our head and use the alti for a backup.

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Yes. Some do. Personally, I don't use a mental "clock". I use my eyeballs. I learned that on my first 5-second delay when the 5 seconds I counted turned out to be 11 seconds that the JM counted.

I was addressing the youngsters who may not have yet developed that situational awareness. Two different situations and so I stand by my post. Yes, doing these things will help them get to the point that you and I have already reached.

In this thread we are dealing with a guy that is supposed to be beyond student status yet shows, by his decision-making, that he is not as far beyond as he thinks he is.

Just like EP's, you should have those altitudes engrained in your brain before you get on the plane. Talk to an instructor if you don't know when to bail out and when to stay with the plane.

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Yes. You should. Note that I said "reasonable". Instruction on the ground is one thing. Telling them how the parachute is going to act on a quick deployment after bail-out is one thing. Actually doing it is another.

Personally, I consider that threshold to be a personal thing and is different to different people. What my threshold is may be, and quite likely is, different than yours.

So how does a young jumper determine what is "reasonable" for him and his comfort level...they jump, they check their altitude loss on exit and SEE how much altitude they lose before they pull and SEE how much altitude is lost for opening. Now they have a real point of reference to determine their own personal threshold.

You've seen it. You've seen posts here about it.
"I'm gonna dump my reserve because my main takes 800 feet to open!" You and I know that doesn't happen on a bail-out with a throw right out the door.

Checking their altitude on that exit will SHOW them the reality of the opening process on a quick deployment. THAT will help them set their own "reasonable" threshold.

And being too altimeter dependent is UNCOOL and dangerous.

Key word "too". Yes. For God's sake we don't want eyes locked on the alti from exit to pull time!

Again, I am talking young jumpers here. What you are addressing is situational awareness as related to altitude. Youngsters don't have it so what to they have to help in developing it? The altimeter. Yes, we all want them to develop that sense. We want them to train their eyeballs. But yes, until they do, the altimeter is all they have...and yes, it a a tool to help them learn as well as a life-saving instrument.

If it takes checking an alti every two seconds for one to maintain awareness, then so be it and good on you!

I've watched more than one jumper take it down too low with a broken alti. I hear of people "missing the beeps" on their audibles. Hey, the ground is there on every jump. Don't be surprised when it comes up at you.
Yep...and I've seen many, many more "take it down too low" by losing altitude awareness using (not using) altimeters of whatever sort.

Thanks, John for you comments. You are correct for experienced people. The guy in the thread isn't as experienced as he thinks he is.


To all:
Sorry for the hijack. Altitude awareness was mentioned and I felt it import to provide some info for the youngsters.

Let's all get back to the topic at hand, eh?

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For the record, I understood your point and I agree with it - I was just concerned some newer jumpers might misinterpret what you were saying.

On behalf of the young jumpers out here, your concern is GREATLY appreciated.

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"If you aren't worried, you obviously don't understand the problem."

Oooooo!
I'm gonna steal this!!

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"If you aren't worried, you obviously don't understand the problem."

Oooooo!
I'm gonna steal this!!

don't be "worried" - be prepared

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. As long as he doesn't hurt anyone else who cares.

I care. Anybody concerned about the fate of others cares. Anybody concerned about our sport cares. Simple as that.

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DAVE I am new! And I check my altimeter after getting stable from leaving the plane to see how much altitude it takes me to get stable. Also check it through out my skydive. Glad it gives you the giggles.

Good on you, Amy!
You give me smiles.

Side note:
Please try to stay away from the idea of "time". Depending on time can, and will, get you into trouble. It's happened before and it's happened often.

"I got time to fix this...Ooooops, no I don't".

Your instructors may have mentioned time distortion to you. We highlight it for a reason. Time is relevant, altitude is not. Your altimeter is going tell you true. Your brain may lie to you. Take your pick.

And to head 'em off at the pass, yes, altimeters can break on the jump. You will need to quickly develop your situational awareness and your eyeballs to help decrease your dependence on the altimeter.

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Peer pressure is often more effective than regulation from above, especially when delivered in the presence of those the offender was hoping to impress.

Hear! Hear!
Too many of us turn a blind eye to the stupidity.
If we are a self-policing activity, we need to do more self-policing.

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i appeciated all ur advice chuck, i will be putting up my velo for a later time in my skydiving career and hope to always be ur friend. i never intended to cause so much trouble.

Chad Jennings

My God, Chad. That is just awesome!
Maybe one of these days it will be YOU taking on the hot rods like Chuck does....and that would be a good thing!

My hat is off to you, sir.

Oooops...then I read post #85.

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Hey what if he's the First Man Down and a bunch of Students/low count folks are following him on his downwind landing?

Very good point. I saw an injury last summer from a confused jumper setting up into the wind, head on with little miss "first one down" . . . downwind.

...and people still wonder why FMD is problematic.

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Prefer to shut up and listen at 40 jumps I have a lot to learn and i much prefer the blunt advice I have received at my dropzone and on this site on my quest to learn judgement
Sticks and stones and the ground hurt >>> Words regardless of how harsh they may sound I hear them and can only help me.

Can you bottle that attitude? I'll buy gallons of it!
Awesome!

One thing though...don't ever be afraid to ask. When you say "shut up" I hope you didn't really mean it in its literal sense and I'm sure you didn't.

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it amazes me that so many ppl talk shit bout someone they have never met and know nothing about. ask any jumper that jumps with me, they will tell u how safe and aware that i really am...

Uh oh........

I hope you are taking the piss here.

We've never met you, sure, but we know a lot about you, from the evidence you yourself have posted on Utube. It doesn't take much to recognise inexperience/overconfidence/a DGIT when we see it...

You were given credit for posting that you had listened to the advice you were given.

Following this post, if you were serious , I'm wondering if you have simply sold everyone a dummy.

For your sake, I hope you were joking here....

Most of the posters who were slagging you off weren't born yesterday, and we've seen many like you come and go....the lucky ???? ones in a wheelchair, others in a pine box.

Arrogance and stupidity isn't always a common factor in accidents, but certain people do fit the template.

Oh yeah, would you like to tell us what you've replaced the velo with.

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this the same guy??

Thanks for posting that link, it's a fun video. I always get a kick out of newbies who jump out of the plane and then check their altimeter 2 seconds out of the door. News flash pal, you're 100 ft lower than when you jumped 2 seconds ago.

Pssst.... 46 feet.

Wouldn't it be 64 feet?

32 feet per second per second.

Yes, it would be.




In vacuum.

LOL... My Old Timer's Disease is showing... actually, it's 62 feet... 16 + 46 = 62.

And for the first five seconds you are for all practical purposes in a vacuum because the air does not affect the acceleration profile until that point.

See the attached chart that shows what I mean; as soon as you hit five seconds (about 85mph), your rate of acceleration drops off significantly as air resistance becomes a factor, and by the time you get to seconds 8-12, you're only accelerating about 4 feet per second per second.

The "vacuum formula" does work for the first five seconds, though, especially if, unlike Dave and me, you can do basic math.

44

Negative. It's 64 feet. (vacuum)

distance = 1/2at^2
d = 1/2 * 32f/s/s * 2s^2
d = 64 feet

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Agree or disagree with the tone that was used, but the message got thru.

Old school works. Wish I could get that through the heads of the new school types.

A-FUCKING-MEN!

I've got no problem pointing out where slack valley is, and that way people have a choice. The can get good, or they can get dead.

Gravity and the planet ain't "nice".

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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Gravity and the planet ain't "nice".

No matter how hard you try, you can't dodge a planet.