Titusville Manifest and Sky Gods new deployment altitudes

Interesting incident: I got scolded by the large manifest lady at Titusville for pulling too low today. She had absolutely no idea what she was talking about, but apparently some very experienced skydivers saw me pull low.

I have to admit that I am well impressed with the altitude measurement equipment of the mentioned 'very experienced skydivers'. Most people at Titusville choose to dump above 4,000 AGL. I go with the BSR i.e: container opening at 3,000 AGL, which is higher than required anyway.

In conclusion I requested my money back. At first I was refused and told I could sell my tickets to someone. Finally, after expalining that by selling me tickets they entered into a contractual agreement with me to transport me to altitude, they decided to pay me back. Anyway, if you are not willing to be very nice to the manifest lady, don't go to Titusville

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...Anyway, if you are not willing to be very nice to the manifest lady, don't go to Titusville

I think it's true of most DZs that being nice to the Manifest Ladies is a good idea.

Kevin K.

I also have some negative memories from Space-center...

Me and my buddies (5 of us) went to titusville to do some skydiving and found out it was pretty much dead quiet over there...

Weather was good and all, but everyone had apparently gone home to spend xmas...

There was maby 1-2 locals there and us plus 4 norvegean tandem passangers waiting to get to jump.

The manifest had told the passangers that the "winds are too high and we have to wait" and they had charged the tandems form them..

Well we ofcourse saw that the reality was that there was not enough people (maby not even TM´s ) around and so we called Deland and asked if they were active and they said yeah.. we are loading back to back here.

So we told the norvegean guys how it was and asked if they wanted to come to deland with us and make the tandems there ... They said : "sure but the manifest told us all the other DZ´s have a hold up also because of the winds"

We said this is not true and told them to go and get their money back from the manifest. It turned out that the manifest didnt want to give any money back and that they should come back tomorrow ...

Eventually the manifest did return the money and we took the guys to deland and they all got to jump immedietly as we did too... (jumping for free from the referrals from those 4 passangers we brought there )

I vote for Zhills or deland if you are in the area...

EDIT: I guess stealing tandem passangers from a DZ is not really smart, but neither is lieing to the tandem passangers...

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...Anyway, if you are not willing to be very nice to the manifest lady, don't go to Titusville

I think it's true of most DZs that being nice to the Manifest Ladies is a good idea.

Kevin K.

By very nice I means shut up and look stupid nice. I think the idustry has forgotten that:

I skydiver - paying customer

They DZ - service provider, not master of universe. It appears other jumpers have figured it out too, and went elsewhere. Tandems can go elswhere too - not like Titusville is the only DZ in central Florida.

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Did they refuse to let you jump any more? If they did, you'd have a stronger case for getting your money back.

The DZ there does not have an S&TA. It is run by the manifest lady whi is to say the least semi competent. I asked what she wanted me to do and she said that she wanted me to be under a fully deployed canopy at 3,000 AGL.

Putting aside the fact that she has no way of measuring that, I decided that I am not going to jump there. If they don't know how to treat a paying customer with courtesy, then they don't need my money. They can chew out their buddies, but not customers.

I'm curious - are you bugged more at the deployment altitude rule, or the tone of voice in which you were spoken to? In other words, is this mainly a matter of altitude (rules), or of attitude (courtesy)?

Suppose she had politely said to you: "Excuse me, I hope you're having a good time. By the way, we have a 4,000 ft deployment altitude rule here, and it looked to us on the ground that you dumped lower than that. We need you to dump no lower than 4,000 ft here from now on, OK? Thanks." -- would you still be pissed? Would you still have taken your business elsewhere?

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Putting aside the fact that she has no way of measuring that [opening altitude]

Maybe not precisely, but maybe there were other jumpers in the air at the same time who were able to gauge. And even if it was only jumpers on the ground who saw you, if they're used to seeing people dump by 4K, they're familiar with what that looks like from the ground, and what it looks like when someone dumps lower. For anything from tandem-deployment altitude to lower, I'm pretty good at eyeball estimating a jumper's deployment altitude from the ground, and I don't spend every day at the DZ.

-- would you still be pissed? Would you still have taken your business elsewhere?

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I would, that's 2000' feet higher than I'm normally open at.


I'm a big boy now, I don't have to be 'taller than this line' to get to ride the elephant anymore.

If the DZ's rules vary from the USPA's... then post that in great big letters on the waiver.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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-- would you still be pissed? Would you still have taken your business elsewhere?

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I would, that's 2000' feet higher than I'm normally open at.


I'm a big boy now, I don't have to be 'taller than this line' to get to ride the elephant anymore.

If the DZ's rules vary from the USPA's... then post that in great big letters on the waiver.

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Weekend before last I made three jumps....dumped at 2000 feet on all three. Goddamn ya shudda heard the whining. The DZO said I was scaring the kids. Things sure have changed.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

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The DZO said I was scaring the kids. Things sure have changed.

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I told ya about one of those 'Gerber Jumpers' askin' how come there's no YELLOW on my Altimeter and the RED starts a 2...?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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First of all, always be nice to your Manifest ladies. Always. According to you just because you're going to Titsville you should be nice to Manifest. Wrong. Be nice to Manifest everywhere. All the time. They're the ones who call 911 on your ass when you fuck up. I'm a Manifester and everyone respects our office reguardless. It's only appropriate. Without them you wouldnt even be getting on a plane. If you're pissed that they relayed a message from other experienced skydivers concerning your pull alltitude then thank them. They are only DOING THEIR DAMN JOBS and going above and beyond to ensure your safty. It's not harassment its a damn safety check. People that freak out and complain on dz.com like you just because they were concerned and looking out for you should not be jumping. Yeah everyone in skydiving wants safety. Promote it. How many accidents could have been avoided this year if people asked questions like the Titsville Manifesters did. Good job Titsville. I would have given him back his tickets too. He sounds like liability.

Also, where the hell is Titsville? I think you're making stuff up. Just because you're at Titsville doesnt mean you can abuse the manifest girls.

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First of all, always be nice to your Manifest ladies. Always. According to you just because you're going to Titsville you should be nice to Manifest. Wrong. Be nice to Manifest everywhere. All the time. They're the ones who call 911 on your ass when you fuck up. I'm a Manifester and everyone respects our office reguardless. It's only appropriate. Without them you wouldnt even be getting on a plane. If you're pissed that they relayed a message from other experienced skydivers concerning your pull alltitude then thank them. They are only DOING THEIR DAMN JOBS and going above and beyond to ensure your safty. It's not harassment its a damn safety check. People that freak out and complain on dz.com like you just because they were concerned and looking out for you should not be jumping. Yeah everyone in skydiving wants safety. Promote it. How many accidents could have been avoided this year if people asked questions like the Titsville Manifesters did. Good job Titsville. I would have given him back his tickets too. He sounds like liability.

Also, where the hell is Titsville? I think you're making stuff up. Just because you're at Titsville doesnt mean you can abuse the manifest girls.

(Pulling up an easy chair to watch this one ...)

(Pulling up an easy chair to watch this one ...)

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No shit Ice...

Question for ya manifest type person, are you working there because we're jumping, or are we jumping because you're working there?

Just wondering, because I can stay home and get attitude, all I want outta you is ALTITUDE!

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

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I got scolded by the large manifest lady... ...no idea what she was talking about... ...impressed with the altitude measurement equipment... ...dump above 4,000... ...I go with 3,000... ...requested my money back... ...does not have an S&TA... ...semi competent... ...fully deployed canopy at 3,000... ...decided that I am not going to jump there... ...they don't need my money...

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...Be nice to Manifest everywhere... ...they're the ones who call 911... ...I'm a Manifester... ...relayed a message from other experienced skydivers... ...It's not harassment its a damn safety check... ...people like you should not be jumping... ...How many accidents could have been avoided this year... ...good job Titusville... ...he sounds like liability...

Sheesh. People might want to relax a bit, this is supposed to be a recreational activity.

On one hand, yes, you're life will be nothing but easier if you're nice to manifest. On the other hand, the dropzone needs to be clear about rules like pull altitude, pattern direction, types of turns allowed, etc. when they hand you a waiver, not after people start complaining about you.

As a side note, I suppose I'd also encourage up-jumpers to talk to newcomers if they see them do something rather than report them to manifest.

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Without them you wouldnt even be getting on a plane.

Really? I thought it was my jump ticket that allowed me to get on the plane? I thought that manifest was a paid position to facilitate the customer?

I must say now that I realise that manifesters are doing their job out of the goodness of their hearts, and not for money, I will make an extra special effort to be polite and bring them regular cups of tea!

- Jim, you 're killing me.

Yes, had I not known the "rules" beforehand, I would have gotten exactly 1 jump in.
The manifest person would have been pulling her hair out.
The kids would have been screaming.
I would have been, "Whaaa? What's the problem?"

Ahhh...youngsters these days...

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First of all, always be nice to your Manifest ladies. Always.

Yes, it pays to be nice to everyone, yes?

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They're the ones who call 911 on your ass when you fuck up.

I certainly hope not. They are usually the last to know.

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I'm a Manifester and everyone respects our office reguardless. It's only appropriate.

"Regardless" is the key word here...I really hope you don't mean that. The manifest office will get no respect if they don't act respectful.

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Without them you wouldnt even be getting on a plane.

I need to take a few days to calm down before I reply to this statement.

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DOING THEIR DAMN JOBS and going above and beyond to ensure your safty.

Not manifest's job...S&TA's job. Are YOU an S&TA? If you are, why are you sitting in a manifest position instead of out there observing, correcting, teaching and helping jumpers?

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People that freak out and complain on dz.com like you just because they were concerned and looking out for you should not be jumping.

Another few days to calm down needed....

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Yeah everyone in skydiving wants safety. Promote it.

Great idea for everyone. It's just a conflict between what pull altitude is "safe" for us and what YOU think is safe for us.

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How many accidents could have been avoided this year if people asked questions like the Titsville Manifesters did.

You asked the question...do you have the numbers?

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Good job Titsville. I would have given him back his tickets too.

As well they should have. No questions asked, no arguments to be made..."You broke the rules. You're grounded. Here's your refund for the tickets you bought and can't use."

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He sounds like liability.

Several weeks to calm down...Nah....well, yes, I'll need it.

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Also, where the hell is Titsville?

NOW you got my full attention...waiting for an anwer to this one.

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I think you're making stuff up. Just because you're at Titsville doesnt mean you can abuse the manifest girls.

What I got from the OP was that manifest abused him. Did I misinterpret something?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Without them you wouldnt even be getting on a plane.

Really? I thought it was my jump ticket that allowed me to get on the plane? I thought that manifest was a paid position to facilitate the customer?

I must say now that I realise that manifesters are doing their job out of the goodness of their hearts, and not for money, I will make an extra special effort to be polite and bring them regular cups of tea!

The issue is truly twofold:

1. There are no clearly stated deployment rules at Titusville and either 2007 SIM Section 2.1.g http://www.uspa.org/publications/SIM/2007SIM/section2.htm#21g is a rule, or let's just discard the SIM and the USPA in general. If a dropzone advertises as a USPA dropzone then they should honor the USPA rules.

2. There is of course the issue of manifest ladies perceiving themselves as deities of the upper echelon. Mind you, my wife used to work manifest during weeks at Skydive the Point. I don't think Jim Crouch would tolarate five seconds of rudness towards customers. Skydiving is a service industry and I being the customer am aloud to expect certain servicelevels. At Titusville the levels of service at manifest are absolutely non existent - they don't give a damn neither about fun jumpers nor about tandems. Their assumption is that we the jumpers should be thankfull for them letting us jump. They forget that WE the jumpers spend our hard earned money there. The USPA group members have all signed a Skydiving Service Code of Conduct. Titusville is going against all points thereof.

In additio to all that Titusville does not even have an S&TA, so the two hundred jump wonder manifest lady takes it upon herself.

I'm a big boy now, I don't have to be 'taller than this line' to get to ride the elephant anymore.

If the DZ's rules vary from the USPA's... then post that in great big letters on the waiver.