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ridestrong

Malfunction/Cutaway & Ground Crash Video

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For anyone who thinks they can clear a lineover with a hook knife, please read this thread by someone who I respect.
/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=172047;search_string=hook%20knife;#172047




...and on the other hand~

I've cleared a line-over twice with a hook knife.

Once on a demo that I absolutely did NOT want to land under a round reserve unless there was no other option.

The second time under a square reserve that would have planted me had I not cut the line.


~just sayin', it CAN be done.


It is AMAZING what you can do with the proper motivation:ph34r::ph34r:


What are you doing discussing skydiving.... go back to SC stirring that pot :P totally kidding Jeanne I like seeing comments from you in the skydiving threads. B|


I got banned for 2 weeks for an inane comment about someone MIGHT want to ......

I guess a certain mod needed a metro moment

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I would like to ask does the tunnel help in the progression to a camera jumping?



I don't see how, at least for bellyflying. You can learn basic bellyfly skills in the tunnel sure, but you should have those by 200 jumps anyway. These basic skills mean you can sideslide and such without thinking about it. But you still have to do the exit, be wherever the shot needs you to be, react to the subject you're shooting all the time, keep altitude aware at all times, keep aware of your surroundings (ie, other jumpers that are out of your immediate shot like jumpers gone low, accompanying jumpers on a tandem video and whatnot), the time under canopy. All this means you need to have a lot of "space" in your head something you can only get with experience (and 200 jumps I think often is not enough, as a previous poster just said). You need to be free enough with regular skydiving (from gear-up to landing or even later you now have extra stuff to handle) to be ready for something extra, don't see how the tunnel would be any help here.

For freeflying later on I think the tunnel would help, just because the solid freefly skills needed for camera flying are harder to acquire than the belly skills, so if you can get those skills in the tunnel that'll shorten your progression to camera flying on freefly jumps (but still not sooner than 200 jumps).

You may or may not be allowed in the tunnel with a camera wing suit, that may help with skills with that suit but that is not something I'd consider crucial, flying with wings you can practice solo and soon on 2ways, 4ways etc, and for instance our local tunels will not allow you in there with wings anyway.

Basically, for me, the tunnel is kinda boring - no camera wings, no wingsuit, no crw :|;)

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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I wouldn't think a tunnel would help. You don't have a rig on, you have unlimited time,...



Is it free? I want to go to your tunnel!! :D:D
"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

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My question I quess is does learning to fly your body help reduce the things that you are thinking about in the air thus making a camera safer at a lower jump number.



Think about flying your body first... and getting comfortable in the sky. There is ALWAYS a lot going on around you when you are learning. Most beginning jumpers have enough things to keep on their minds without have to add anything else to worry about.. How many distractions does it take before you miss something that might kill you had you been more focused??

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My question I quess is does learning to fly your body help reduce the things that you are thinking about in the air thus making a camera safer at a lower jump number.

...more in aspect to pov cameras....



You need to learn to fly your body period. I don't understand the immediate need to strap a POV cam on such as these GoPro's. Is it so that you can throw it up on YouTube and impress someone with a bunch of sky?

You're not shooting 4 way, if you are in a FS group, chances are you are just seeing faces or your mirror. If you are FF, then you are shooting everyone else. How does this help you? It doesn't.

Low jumpers need to learn how to fly the basics, sit at the bonfire, listen, and learn. Get an experienced CAM FLYER TO SHOOT YOU and learn from the film. Then when you have the experience (more than the min #) get the cam flyer to work with you doing 2-ways and progress from there.

I've never had an instructor or coach tell me to take my camera up and then then evaluate my FS or FF or landing skills from the shit on my own camera.

If I was Simon Bones and my FF partner was a clone of Bones, why would we need cameras to learn from? Alas I'm not Bones so both of us film each other and analyze tape b/c the tunnel is far far away.

Does that make sense?[:/]
It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude.
If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough.
That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama

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I don't understand the immediate need to strap a POV cam on such as these GoPro's. Is it so that you can throw it up on YouTube and impress someone with a bunch of sky?



DUUUUUUUUUUUDE
Nothin like watchin freeflail video on youtube:ph34r::ph34r:




ON the flip side.. how many dead skydivers do you know of.. who were trying to get "sick video"??[:/]

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I would like to ask does the tunnel help in the progression to a camera jumping?



Most likely...camera flying in the tunnel would be very similar if not IDENTICAL to actual skydiving with a camera...both carry no risks what so ever

edit for grammar cause i is dumb

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I would like to ask does the tunnel help in the progression to a camera jumping?



Most likely...camera flying in the tunnel would be very similar if not IDENTICAL to actual skydiving with a camera...both carry no risks what so ever

edit for grammar cause i is dumb


They have not allowed them in the tunnel when I have tried to take mine.. and I am not exactly a beginner.

Ya gotta ask yourself, What is the point of flying a camera in freefall?


Ya also gotta ask yourself if having it is a distraction, keeping you from being completely focused on what I consider to be an important thing in this sport... staying alive!

THEN to top it off... like the original OP.... shit happens and here we have a new distraction... one which interfered a tad with a speedy sequence of EP's

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My question I quess is does learning to fly your body help reduce the things that you are thinking about in the air thus making a camera safer at a lower jump number.




!! NO !!
Tunnel flying can teach you freefall skills but it can not give you experience and situational awareness at deployment time.

"GENERALLY" the issues with cameras arise at deployment time.

Time in the sport, jump numbers and mentors give yo the requisite knowledge and experience required for that.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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My question I quess is does learning to fly your body help reduce the things that you are thinking about in the air thus making a camera safer at a lower jump number.




Did you read the excellent response to your question the first time you posted it?

Let me refresh your memory -
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But you still have to do the exit, be wherever the shot needs you to be, react to the subject you're shooting all the time, keep altitude aware at all times, keep aware of your surroundings (ie, other jumpers that are out of your immediate shot like jumpers gone low, accompanying jumpers on a tandem video and whatnot), the time under canopy. All this means you need to have a lot of "space" in your head something you can only get with experience (and 200 jumps I think often is not enough, as a previous poster just said). You need to be free enough with regular skydiving (from gear-up to landing or even later you now have extra stuff to handle) to be ready for something extra, don't see how the tunnel would be any help here.




By the time you're in the neighborhood of 200 jumps, the basic control of your body should have been accomplished a long time ago. It's the other skills listed above that are just coming into play around 200 jumps.

It's like this - can you teach a 12 year old to operate a car? The steering wheel, the brake, the gas etc.? Of course you can, the operation of a motor vehicle is simple in comparison to some video games or computer programs 12 year olds have mastered.

Now would you put that 12 year old into traffic, and trust them to drive a car? Probably not. They don't have the maturity, focus, or life experience needed to make good choices and be a safe driver.

Flying a camera is the same thing. Just because you can skydive doesn't mean you can fly a camera. Flying your body is only one part of the equation, the rest of it you pick up little by little as you rack up the jumps.

Training in the tunnel will make a you a sharper body flyer. Once you get to terminal, and before break off you'll be a superstar, but in every other facet of actual skydiving, you still only have however many jumps you have.

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Most likely...camera flying in the tunnel would be very similar if not IDENTICAL to actual skydiving with a camera...both carry no risks what so ever

edit for grammar cause i is dumb


The only part of this post I can agree with is the last sentence. Everything in life carries risk, everything in skydiving carries risk...
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

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Go do 100 hop and pops. Then your jumps numbers will be up there!

But seriously, I am no where near starting to fly camera. Sure part of me wants to so I can show the video to my wuffo friends, but staying alive and not endangering others is more important to me at this point.
This shit, right here, is OK

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To those of you who have given constructive critisisms so far, thank you.

Some of you more experienced jumpers seem to be contradicting each other. What is the point of disconnecting the RSL???? Is it to get stable before pulling the reserve? Then what would be the point of trying to hit silver the split second after the cutaway? Why not just keep the RSL connected then?

The GoPro, is it a legitimate snag hazard or not? Some of you don't seem to think so. I unclipped the chin strap as easily as if I was standing on the ground, I would not have taken the time to fumble with it. I was calm and did not panic, there are times when you know you don't have a second to spare... I don't think I wasted too much time, I didn't fumble with the lines, toggles etc... It would take more time and altitude to cutaway without an RSL be stable and then pull reserve than anything I did in this situation.



Think about it, snagging your main on a camera with your RSL attached.

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To those of you who have given constructive critisisms so far, thank you.

Some of you more experienced jumpers seem to be contradicting each other. What is the point of disconnecting the RSL???? Is it to get stable before pulling the reserve? Then what would be the point of trying to hit silver the split second after the cutaway? Why not just keep the RSL connected then?

The GoPro, is it a legitimate snag hazard or not? Some of you don't seem to think so. I unclipped the chin strap as easily as if I was standing on the ground, I would not have taken the time to fumble with it. I was calm and did not panic, there are times when you know you don't have a second to spare... I don't think I wasted too much time, I didn't fumble with the lines, toggles etc... It would take more time and altitude to cutaway without an RSL be stable and then pull reserve than anything I did in this situation.



Think about it, snagging your main on a camera with your RSL attached.


That would not be pleasant... and is a good point.

Even more unpleasant... would be having your reserve snagged on your camera.
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

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Think about it, snagging your main on a camera with your RSL attached.



That would not be pleasant... and is a good point.

Even more unpleasant... would be having your reserve snagged on your camera.


This really needs to be simplified:
(All jump number issues aside,) If you're reluctant to have a reserve ride with a certain camera setup without jettisoning your helmet first, you shouldn't be jumping that setup. If you feel that way about any camera setup, you shouldn't jump a camera at all.

By the way, a jettisoned helmet (with camera) does have some mass to it, and it always lands somewhere, which means it's a potential hazard to people on the ground. For example, even at a fairly rural DZ, if you open over the airport, there may be people right under you.

I'm not saying a jumper should not ditch his helmet in an emergency if he must; but if you're more likely to decide to ditch your helmet than, say, the average camera jumper, there is some social responsibility to consider before jumping it in the first place.

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Trust me on this. The camera adds complexity to any dive. With more than 2,000 camera jumps I still go over safety procedures and check my camera setup before every jump. What if you have a premie and it tangles with the camera? At your number of jumps do know what to do? How to analyze the situation? It is easy to justify and simply the "2" problem areas and say that you can eliminate one because you don't pay attention to it in freefall. Tell me this, have you ever had the thought in freefall with your camera on thinking this is a great shot, hope I am getting it? Well, that just changed your whole thought process for that jump.

Stay safe and blue skies.

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As often you got some valid points there, I got to agree. It indeed was a distraction factor in this "sloppy" cutaway..

Still, can 100 more jumps prepare him for everything that is to come when flying a camera, instead of actually practicing flying it, having a bump or two in the way, but actually learning the real deal early on? What makes a person so special that in 100 jumps his awareness changes so uber drastically that he can now officially fly a camera?



Do you know more than you did at 50 jumps? The biggest thing is getting familiar with your body in the sky. The more time in the air the better your body will perform. You can alway fall back on a couple of great cliches "Practice, Practice, Practice" & "Practice makes perfect".

Once you have learned to fly your body efficiently, then adding something else to the mix is a whole lot less risky.

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Tell me this, have you ever had the thought in freefall with your camera on thinking this is a great shot, hope I am getting it? Well, that just changed your whole thought process for that jump.



for ME, now I can honestly say I have never had this thought. I have been jumping a GoPro camera for two years and I NEVER think about it in flight. After 200 BASE/wingsuit jumps with camera, a few dozen skydive wingsuit jumps, and ~400+ speed flights I can say I do not think about it in flight.

It has become part of the pre-flight check. the last thought about the camera is when i turn it on during gear check.

On a second note, sure the 200 jump rule applied to this guy, but look at what happened. he messed up. but it was not because of the camera. he deployed at a conservative altitude and made the correct decisions. This does not mean the 200 jump thing should be changed, I am only saying that packing error aside, he dealt with it well.

-SPACE-

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this guy, but look at what happened. he messed up. but it was not because of the camera. he deployed at a conservative altitude and made the correct decisions. This does not mean the 200 jump thing should be changed, I am only saying that packing error aside, he dealt with it well.



Ridestrong was distracted by the camera and made the wrong decision, taking the time to ditch the helmet before EPs. You're saying this is the correct decision?

He said his hand was on the reserve handle but decided against pulling because the Skyhook beat him - but the photo he posted shows this was not so. Is this breakdown in EPs "deal(ing) with it well"?

This guy packed himself a mal, ignored it while fucking around with his camera helmet and then managed to cutaway but not follow through with a reserve pull, relying on his gear to do it for him.

Our definitions of "correct decisions" and "dealing with it" are very different.
"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

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He said his hand was on the reserve handle but decided against pulling because the Skyhook beat him - but the photo he posted shows this was not so.



how so? the picture (awesome picture by the way, hilarious [aside from being scary]) shows him sniveling under his reserve at medium speeds right? once the reserve leaves your back (that happened several seconds before that screen grab was taken) there is no point in throwing reserve handle.

and he was at 2k, plenty of altitude. (right?)


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Our definitions of "correct decisions" and "dealing with it" are very different.



maybe. I feel like he deployed his main at a safe altitude and was under a good reserve at a safe altitude. The camera stopped him from cutting away one or two hundred feet higher, but he was at 2k, and though this should not have happened (mal or hesitation in cutaway) it was not the end of the world, no one died, and he probably got grounded and camera jump privileges taken away.


or maybe I should just stay out of discussions like this. B|:S:$

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I've always believed that you catch more flies with honey so I'm not going to flame away on you...I will however give you the following advice:

You really have no idea how far in over your head you are (all the way up to that stupid camera I'd wager) and there is a very good chance that you will die learning the lesson with only enough time in the end to say to your self, "I'm dumb." There is also a fairly decent chance that if you don't dies someone you become friends with will emulate your behavior and you will get to watch them die.

The ground is absolute and completely unforgiving. The sky will always be there. What is so goddamn important about the next couple hundred jumps that you just have to video them?


ps - I am 99% sure you won't listen to a word of this, I posted it for the kid with 20 jumps and an open mind who may be influenced by it.



+1

Surprisingly well said for what seemed to be going into an all out flame war.
_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

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