Malfunction/Cutaway & Ground Crash Video

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If this kid is missing a such a blatant error with his packing he should be nowhere near a camera, GoPro or not. I guess he’s too busy rushing his packing so he can plug his GP in and watch his sick sitflying skillzzzz from the previous jump.

But seriously, come on, everybody has made some mistakes while packing, no ones perfect

To those of you who have given constructive critisisms so far, thank you.

Some of you more experienced jumpers seem to be contradicting each other. What is the point of disconnecting the RSL???? Is it to get stable before pulling the reserve? Then what would be the point of trying to hit silver the split second after the cutaway? Why not just keep the RSL connected then?

The GoPro, is it a legitimate snag hazard or not? Some of you don't seem to think so. I unclipped the chin strap as easily as if I was standing on the ground, I would not have taken the time to fumble with it. I was calm and did not panic, there are times when you know you don't have a second to spare... I don't think I wasted too much time, I didn't fumble with the lines, toggles etc... It would take more time and altitude to cutaway without an RSL be stable and then pull reserve than anything I did in this situation.

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It's a GoPro, what's the big deal with the snag thing, even if that tiny thing ever snagged it most likely would be ripped of the helmet during the cutaway, I don't see a big deal with that.

2k feet under a reserve, it's not bad, specially when he has a skyhook RSL, not a huge problem to cutaway low and survive.

--->This is the wrong way to think about the skyhook. This is the same metality that gets you killed. It is right in line with counting on an AAD.


I noticed a lot of you tend to claim that this is bad, that is bad, this can go wrong etc.. But you never actually show us an example. Please show me a fatality or a serious injury caused specifically by a GoPro cam (excluding ALL the rest of cams).

Also there's a jump number OK tendency in DZ.com, meaning if ridestrong had this cutaway at 200+ jumps the replies here most likely would have been a long the lines "nice cutaway; glad you're alive; beer!", if you don't fall into the "OK" jump nr. recommendation zone you're not cool, unlike if you did where most of you wouldn't complain if there was the same stupid shit done..

---> Many said good job but there are some things he should not have done which he needs to learn.

But I don't know what I don't know, I still like to post for the drama

To the OP the pic attached of you holding your cutaway and seeing your reserve D-ring still in place made me cringe. Pull BOTH handles no matter what. I know the skyhook is fast but pull both.

Disclaimer: I do not have that many jumps but I thought that my comments would be constructive. They are things that have been taught to me that are very important!

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Um.....hook knife anyone? Think cutting that one line would have stopped the spin?

The whole point of this thread has been to not waste time unclipping the chin strap, and you suggest a course of action that would take at least ten times as long?

How long do you think it would take to locate and extract your hook knife, isolate the one the line in question, and cut the line? 15 seconds sounds reasonble given the high pressure situation, combined with the physical aspect of spinning at a high rate of speed.

What are your chances of snagging the wrong line wiht your hook knife? Add 10 seconds to locate and cut the right line.

Do you wear gloves? How easy do you think it will be to grab on specific line, under tension, with a gloved hand? Add another 10 seconds for that.

In the end, it you fail to cut the proper line, you still need to cutaway. How low do you want to do that?

Forget the idea of cutting lines under canopy unless it is your last resort. If your reserve has a mal, start cutting. If you're in a wrap with no options left, start cutting. Otherwise, use your handles, and do it quickly.

It was a question, jackass. Looks like one line to me.

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Um.....hook knife anyone? Think cutting that one line would have stopped the spin?

Dude, the line was too high to just reach up and cut it with a hook knive. It would take some serious time to try to identify that one line, separate it and cut it all while spinning hard and fast.... still not to guarantee a landable canopy.

Here's the problem in a nutshell!

You don't even know that you don't know.


There is a thing we call the chain of disaster, most times you can get away with one link, sometimes even two when constructing the chain that connects living & dying...three is usually the magic number that kills ya.

Let's count...

Can't yet pack reliability~ that happens ya get better with time.

Jumping a camera~ You have no business doing that until you can AT LEAST pack reliably...go a couple hundred jumps on your own pack jobs without a problem.

Don't understand the EP's regarding a spinning malfunction and jumping a camera.~ no excuse for that...it's not just dumb, it shows a mindset of lacking interest in detail, that WILL eventually get you dead.

Gear set up~ no excuse see above.

Now for the big one...your post about milk and cigars as well as why a hook knife wouldn't work show a cavalier attitude that tells me you're playin' invincible and know more than you do...THAT'S BAD!

I wasn't there, from the vid I see a hook knife would have worked...using one or not is another discussion but a fast answer that you couldn't reach the top of your risers, cut the ONLY obviously bad line and that it wouldn't have mattered because the canopy wouldn't be land-able...SCREAMS to everyone you don't know what you're talking about.

So listen up kid, trust me on this~

You learn a lot more with your ears & eyes than ya do with your mouth.

YA FUCKED UP, ya dodged a bullet...THIS TIME.

LEARN from it, TAKE the advise being offered!

Some guys may sound harsh, suck it up...the bottom line is nobody wants to see ya get dead.

They are saying it hard & loud because it's THAT fucking important that you listen this time and absorb it.

This ain't tennis...when ya lose here, the game IS over...they dig a hole and put ya in it.

That real...it happens to people better than you, better than me.

I've SEEN it happen to people that didn't make 1/2 the mistakes you did on that jump.

Lose the attitude, learn & live!

I'd like to make a few with you sometime down the road and it would work out better, if you're still alive!

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Dude, the line was too high to just reach up and cut it with a hook knive. It would take some serious time to try to identify that one line, separate it and cut it all while spinning hard and fast.... still not to guarantee a landable canopy.

Please don't go down the "I thought about cutting the line" trail. Perhaps it's time to walk away from this thread, Ridestrong.

and:

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----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

I guess you know a little. The problem is thinking a little is a lot and misperceiving a little skill as sufficient. A larger problem is general lack of awareness. Situational awareness is critical to this sport.

On your OP you attached a photo called "cord in hand". I guess you meant the yellow cutaway cables - which isn't a cord. But this cap also shows the reserve at near or full extension and your hand is on the riser (holding the cutaway pillow!)...not on the silver handle, which is where you told us it was!!

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I have a Skyhook and I could feel my reserve opening as I put my hand on the 'D' ring.

So which is it? I'm just wondering. Were you aware of where your hands were and just made up the bit about going for the handle to protect your pride?

Also, I'm not saying it's important to know the exact names of everything in skydiving (if you have an unlandable malfunction cut it away and worry about what it's called later), but not using basic terminology, such as "yellow cables" vs "cord", or "D ring" vs "reserve handle" makes one think you're not up to speed!

Please take this as friendly and sincere advice: Talk to your S&TA about your approach to safety and skydiving before your next jump. You may be acting like a chump but that doesn't mean anyone wants you to appear in the Incidents forum.

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It was a question, jackass. Looks like one line to me.

I gave an answer, fucktard, and it was in reference to one line.

How far above your risers do you think you can reach sitting the harness during a high speed spin?

I'll tell you, not that far. So what you're left with is trying to get to the line closer to the top of the riser where it's surrounded by, guess what, other lines.

First you have to try to isolate the line, then cut it. Your chances of not getting it right the first time in those close quarters? Pretty fair, so add time for you to fuck it up once, then to get it right the second time.

Of course, now your 'fixed' canopy has two cut lines, but whatever, right?

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Um.....hook knife anyone? Think cutting that one line would have stopped the spin?

Why the hell would you cut one line on your main to save a reserve ride? If it was a reserve, than that is different, but your main, c'mon? In air rigging will waste a lot of time and altitude.

To answer your second question, cutting the will probably stop the spin if nothing else is wrond with the canopy like a tension knot or something of the sort.

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so you KNOW that you're skyhook equipped ( which is DESIGNED to draw your reserve AWAY ) and you still waste time to shed the helmet.....

I've got more than a dozen breakaways on skyhook equipped rigs and on two of them the skyhool disengaged and a "standard" RSL deployment was the result.

I would never bet on a skyhook to work 100% of the time, and I would never make a decision assuming it will.

Another issue is that some people don't use the tape to mount their GoPros, they drill holes in their helmet and use nuts/bolts. In fact of all of the jumpers I've seen at my DZ that have the GoPros, none of them have used the tape, they have all bolted it on. Guess what, those aren't going to break away like the sticky tape will.

I think it's only a matter of time before we have a fatality from someone using one of these cameras.

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An instructor from Mile Hi needs to sit down with this 100 jump wonder before he's on the Incident forum.

+1

I don't have large numbers and didn't start flying camera until around 300+ but I agree that the GoPros are no different than any other setup in regards to what the SIM recommends.

From a look at the video, there are several problems with the "mad skills" of this jumper.

Packing - 4-line check would have caught step thru.

Looks like deployment was around between 4 & 3.5 K from last look at alti. Camera looking at feet :10 sec At no time does POV look for traffic or at alti.

POV looks at canopy at :12 or :13sec and there is an obvious step thru situation (line from one group around other group) No traffic check or obvious alti check from the POV.

I believe I counted 5 complete revolutions before the chop at :28sec. Never saw hands on risers to attempt to stop the spin, never saw alti in the POV.

So being conservative, it took :15 sec to go from the visualization of the mal to reserve out while rapidly spinning and burning altitude. Way too much time to initiate EPs on a mal that is an obivious chop.

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Um.....hook knife anyone? Think cutting that one line would have stopped the spin?

The whole point of this thread has been to not waste time unclipping the chin strap, and you suggest a course of action that would take at least ten times as long?

It was a question, jackass. Looks like one line to me.

Looks like your question was answered. The answer shouldn't bother you - unless your immune to learning.

This thread reminds me of 888@8.

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I think it's only a matter of time before we have a fatality from someone using one of these cameras.

it happened already. Not camera related. Not skydiving, but BASE jumping.

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Please don't go down the "I thought about cutting the line" trail. Perhaps it's time to walk away from this thread, Ridestrong.

I never would have tried to take the time to cut the line with a hook knife in this situation. You miss read that statement.

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but not using basic terminology, such as "yellow cables" vs "cord", or "D ring" vs "reserve handle" makes one think you're not up to speed!

Come on... Seriously?

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Please take this as friendly and sincere advice: Talk to your S&TA about your approach to safety and skydiving before your next jump. You may be acting like a chump but that doesn't mean anyone wants you to appear in the Incidents forum.

I will take friendly advice for exactly that.

This thread is awesome.

That is all.

Yes, seriously. You can call yellow cables "cords" all day long, and the three rings "riser loops" (which I've heard). I don't care. But if you want to communicate clearly with other skydivers it helps if you use correct terminology. It doesn't give you an appearance of knowlege or by extension, capability, to do otherwise.

But that's neither here nor there. What about that which you've avoided talking about?

The cap you posted contradicts your comment that your hand was on the reserve handle. Were you just being macho or were you unaware of what you were doing?

Again - I'm just wondering.

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What is the point of disconnecting the RSL???? Is it to get stable before pulling the reserve? Then what would be the point of trying to hit silver the split second after the cutaway? Why not just keep the RSL connected then?

The point isn't to try to hit the reserve handle the split second after the cutaway. Breakaway procedures are not fixed. Your actions should be based on the situation, not connect-the-dots automation. This is one reason for choosing to not use an RSL.

Your S&TA can answer your questions. I think it's important to give him/her the chance to do so.

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So being conservative, it took :15 sec to go from the visualization of the mal to reserve out

That was with a Skyhook, no less.

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Still, can 100 more jumps prepare him for everything that is to come when flying a camera, instead of actually practicing flying it, having a bump or two in the way, but actually learning the real deal early on? What makes a person so special that in 100 jumps his awareness changes so uber drastically that he can now officially fly a camera?

I think he probably learned a thing or two over his last 100 jumps that he didn't know before them. No reason to think he won't learn a few more things over the next 100.

In my opinion, 200 is an absolute minimum. This thread proves why... and the original post is only a small part of that.

Dave

The reccomendations for 200 jumps were written when it took a jumper a lot longer to get said 200 jumps than it does now.
I actually think the 200 jumps is NOT ENOUGH.

Maturity in this sport comes with TIME not with racking up numbers fast. and from reading through this thread the ones doing the most whining about the up jumpers all seem to have very low numbers and time in the sport.

It would bode well for most of you low time jumpers to look up the word IGNORANCE.
You dont know what it is you dont know. and in this sport what you dont know can kill you or others.

Around a REAL Bonfire, these conversations would be different and there would be far less whining from low time jumpers.
People tend to be less uppity when the FACE of Experience is looking you in the eyes and has you by the shirt front and is explaining why your stupidity needs to be wound back a bit.

For anyone who thinks they can clear a lineover with a hook knife, please read this thread by someone who I respect.
/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=172047;search_string=hook%20knife;#172047

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Another issue is that some people don't use the tape to mount their GoPros, they drill holes in their helmet and use nuts/bolts. In fact of all of the jumpers I've seen at my DZ that have the GoPros, none of them have used the tape, they have all bolted it on. Guess what, those aren't going to break away like the sticky tape will.

I think it's only a matter of time before we have a fatality from someone using one of these cameras.

That is a good point, on my helmets I use the 3m adhesive. mostly for this reason (line snags). On my skis I use the 3m adhesive (that's included with the camera) as well as cyanoacrylate glue to solidify it.

I have done about 250 jumps (mostly BASE) with the go pro and have broken the 3m mounts from riser slaps as well as broken the actual case of the camera once.

I think since the camera only costs $250 the 3m breakaway idea is a good one. I was able to find the camera.

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For anyone who thinks they can clear a lineover with a hook knife, please read this thread by someone who I respect.
/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=172047;search_string=hook%20knife;#172047

...and on the other hand~

I've cleared a line-over twice with a hook knife.

Once on a demo that I absolutely did NOT want to land under a round reserve unless there was no other option.

The second time under a square reserve that would have planted me had I not cut the line.


~just sayin', it CAN be done.

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For anyone who thinks they can clear a lineover with a hook knife, please read this thread by someone who I respect.
/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=172047;search_string=hook%20knife;#172047

...and on the other hand~

I've cleared a line-over twice with a hook knife.

Once on a demo that I absolutely did NOT want to land under a round reserve unless there was no other option.

The second time under a square reserve that would have planted me had I not cut the line.


~just sayin', it CAN be done.

It is AMAZING what you can do with the proper motivation

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For anyone who thinks they can clear a lineover with a hook knife, please read this thread by someone who I respect.
/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=172047;search_string=hook%20knife;#172047

...and on the other hand~

I've cleared a line-over twice with a hook knife.

Once on a demo that I absolutely did NOT want to land under a round reserve unless there was no other option.

The second time under a square reserve that would have planted me had I not cut the line.


~just sayin', it CAN be done.

It is AMAZING what you can do with the proper motivation

What are you doing discussing skydiving.... go back to SC stirring that pot totally kidding Jeanne I like seeing comments from you in the skydiving threads.

I would like to ask does the tunnel help in the progression to a camera jumping?

I wouldn't think a tunnel would help. You don't have a rig on, you have unlimited time, you're not going to lose altitude awareness, and there is not a subject to frame.

The tunnel is to learn to fly your body. If you can fly your body, you can get where you need to be to shoot your subject. If you can't fly your body, strapping a camera on is not going to get you much for youtube.