AAD use - let's hear it!

I think Bill Von sleeps with his rigger.

Quote

"So please, share. Recall, if you will, that was the original question, not "does Chuck know how to use the quote feature?" or "do people really understand compound interest?" I'll quote it for reference."

OK, fair enough.

1) As has already been said, they can misfire. I think the odds of this happening are remote, but it remains a possibility. It could also fire during an aircraft emergency (again).

2) I'm a firm believer in KISS. I only like to add complexity when necessary. It could cause a one in a million unforeseen conflict w/another component.

3) They're hard metal boxes firmly strapped right across one's spine. Poo Happens. If there's a canopy collapse while landing, or a hard free fall collision. That small metal box could snap your spine, transect your spinal cord, & leave you paralyzed.

I've already been in a situation where I couldn't re-orient my body prior to impacting the ground. It's not a good feeling. Had I landed on my back, I probably would've been left paralyzed. It was a student jump, w/an AAD.

4) A Cypres2 would run me about $1800, including scheduled maintenance. While easily do-able for me, it's still a fair piece of change.

5) When I look at the Save Lists of the two major players, I'm not sold. Vigil's list has a number of repeat incidents listed. They're double-counting some of their saves. I haven't noticed that on Airtec's list, but it's beside the point. What I have noticed is almost all the saves are of students. Student jumpers making student mistakes. Even a fair number of the experienced jumpers' saves are of the same cloth. For example, one guy was uncurrent from a winter, & sucked it all the way down to activation altitude without realizing the ground was getting kinda close . They also include multiple jumpers who did pull silver, but their units still fired. Those people did save themselves.

6) Surprised to say, but there is also the enjoyment of "Jumping Naked". I've got absolutely nothing against anyone who jumps w/an AAD. Comments about their not being real skydivers were asinine, & not made by me. When I rode motorcycles, I always wore a full-faced helmet, & full body protection. I would've been a nervous wreck not to. But, in the air I feel a purity of knowing I have to pull or die. I'm not a reckless person, but do enjoy this aspect of the sport. Perhaps swoopers feel a different version of this? Dunno.

We average a little over three million jumps per year in the US. I'm guessing Europe does the same amount, or even a bit more. Out of six million-ish jumps per year (not counting the rest of the world), the lists show maybe 3-5 legitimate LOC saves. Almost all of those are from higher risk jumps like tracking dives. Last year, I think only one person got taken out from behind by someone swooping into them in free fall (non-tracking dive). The report was unclear as to the circumstances. That's one jump out of six million (plus, Asia & down under) jumps. I think those odds are so remote that it's more likely for me to have one of the other problems I listed above.

When an incident like the one that prompted this thread occurs, it gets everyone's attention. That gentleman had more skill & experience than I'll probably ever have. Everyone who knew him has no idea how this could've happened to him. A health emergency? Bird strike? We'll probably never know. Clearly, it was something extraordinary.

How often does someone of his caliber go in, though? I can't remember a single instance that wasn't explainable by some factor like a mid-air collision.

A lot of injuries in this sport go unreported, but not the deaths. The odds produced by those save lists don't make a compelling case for me to strap an AAD onto my back. I limit the types of jumps I'll do, & keep aware of whom I'm jumping with. I think I'm better off without one. I was taught years ago that everyone has their moment, no matter who they are. That's very true, but I still can't see myself not pulling unless I'm unconscious or seriously incapacitated.

I do think the proof is overwhelming in support for AADs being mandatory for student jumpers, though.

P.S.: After having listed all of this out, if I am that one in six-ish million who gets knocked out & goes in, next year? I'm gonna come back, & kick the piss out of you, Krisanne .

PiLFy

Quote

"So please, share. Recall, if you will, that was the original question, not "does Chuck know how to use the quote feature?" or "do people really understand compound interest?" I'll quote it for reference."

OK, fair enough.

1) As has already been said, they can misfire. I think the odds of this happening are remote, but it remains a possibility. It could also fire during an aircraft emergency (again).

2) I'm a firm believer in KISS. I only like to add complexity when necessary. It could cause a one in a million unforeseen conflict w/another component.

3) They're hard metal boxes firmly strapped right across one's spine. Poo Happens. If there's a canopy collapse while landing, or a hard free fall collision. That small metal box could snap your spine, transect your spinal cord, & leave you paralyzed. if you land that hard, you're going to have a broken back regardless

I've already been in a situation where I couldn't re-orient my body prior to impacting the ground. It's not a good feeling. Had I landed on my back, I probably would've been left paralyzed. It was a student jump, w/an AAD.

4) A Cypres2 would run me about $1800, including scheduled maintenance. While easily do-able for me, it's still a fair piece of change. how much does a nice funeral cost these days

5) When I look at the Save Lists of the two major players, I'm not sold. Vigil's list has a number of repeat incidents listed. They're double-counting some of their saves. I haven't noticed that on Airtec's list, but it's beside the point. What I have noticed is almost all the saves are of students. Student jumpers making student mistakes. Even a fair number of the experienced jumpers' saves are of the same cloth. For example, one guy was uncurrent from a winter, & sucked it all the way down to activation altitude without realizing the ground was getting kinda close . They also include multiple jumpers who did pull silver, but their units still fired. Those people did save themselves.yes, nothing like this will ever happen to you

6) Surprised to say, but there is also the enjoyment of "Jumping Naked". I've got absolutely nothing against anyone who jumps w/an AAD. Comments about their not being real skydivers were asinine, & not made by me. When I rode motorcycles, I always wore a full-faced helmet, & full body protection. I would've been a nervous wreck not to. But, in the air I feel a purity of knowing I have to pull or die. I'm not a reckless person, but do enjoy this aspect of the sport. Perhaps swoopers feel a different version of this? Dunno.

We average a little over three million jumps per year in the US. I'm guessing Europe does the same amount, or even a bit more. Out of six million-ish jumps per year (not counting the rest of the world), the lists show maybe 3-5 legitimate LOC saves. Almost all of those are from higher risk jumps like tracking dives. Last year, I think only one person got taken out from behind by someone swooping into them in free fall (non-tracking dive). The report was unclear as to the circumstances. That's one jump out of six million (plus, Asia & down under) jumps. I think those odds are so remote that it's more likely for me to have one of the other problems I listed above. statistics are great, until you become one

When an incident like the one that prompted this thread occurs, it gets everyone's attention. That gentleman had more skill & experience than I'll probably ever have. Everyone who knew him has no idea how this could've happened to him. A health emergency? Bird strike? We'll probably never know. Clearly, it was something extraordinary.

How often does someone of his caliber go in, though? I can't remember a single instance that wasn't explainable by some factor like a mid-air collision. gravity knows no caliber of jumper

A lot of injuries in this sport go unreported, but not the deaths. The odds produced by those save lists don't make a compelling case for me to strap an AAD onto my back. I limit the types of jumps I'll do, & keep aware of whom I'm jumping with. I think I'm better off without one. I was taught years ago that everyone has their moment, no matter who they are. That's very true, but I still can't see myself not pulling unless I'm unconscious or seriously incapacitated. unconscious puts you in the "novice" category at best

I do think the proof is overwhelming in support for AADs being mandatory for student jumpers, though.

P.S.: After having listed all of this out, if I am that one in six-ish million who gets knocked out & goes in, next year? I'm gonna come back, & kick the piss out of you, Krisanne .

billvon

>I think there's a whole lot of gear snobs in this sport.

There certainly are. And there are people jumping unsafe crap because "that's what I am used to" and "there's nothing wrong with old gear!" and "I can't afford new gear until I hear about this year's schedule." Most of the time they survive their bad judgment, as I did. Sometimes they don't.

>You trust your rigger, or you don't.

Yep - and that goes both ways. "You should think about replacing your main risers." "Well, but that's not part of the reserve or container that you're inspecting, right? I'll just take the main off." "Uh - OK. Your call."

You don't need something brand new to be safe. But you do need to regularly maintain your gear, and that means replacing parts when they wear out, and replacing entire components (like the container) when it's time.

Who said anything about not maintaining their gear? Not I. Nor anyone else in this thread.

Quote

"if you land that hard, you're going to have a broken back regardless."

That's simply not true.

Quote

"yes, nothing like this will ever happen to you."

Which, not pulling while fully conscious, & blowing through 1,000 feet? Nope. Or, pulling silver when I want my reserve to come out? Yep.

Quote

"how much does a nice funeral cost these days?"

"gravity knows no caliber of jumper."

"unconscious puts you in the "novice" category at best."

How do any of these counter the odds I've cited?

Quote

"statistics are great, until you become one."

Were I lucky enough in life to hit at anything w/1 in 6 million odds, I'd have won substantial monies in the occasional lottery ticket I buy, by now.

Honestly, Grimmie. You're far more appealing w/free beer in your hands. Why don't we put this off until the light comes on one night?

billvon

>Who said anything about not maintaining their gear? Not I.

"Maintaining their gear" often includes replacing old gear even if you don't think there's anything wrong with it and you can get another 100 jumps out of it. That means you might have to replace what you consider to be a perfectly good Micro Raven 120 for no other reason than it's old, or you might have to replace a set of risers that (to you) have nothing wrong with them.

Again w/the strawman...

No one said anything of the kind. No one advocated jumping worn out, or otherwise unsafe equipment.

This is interesting. I just followed Grimmie's link. I hadn't known that Tom Piras was taken out by an AAD misfire. I'd say that belongs in this thread:

/forum/Skydiving_C1/Safety_and_Training_F2/What_no_pin_check_P169228-3

Quote

"First of all I would like to ask everybody to STOP posting, talking, writing etc. speculations about Tom Piras accident because you are getting it VERY WRONG and are making others look guilty when it was an accident that could of happen to any of us in those days.

I know the people that were in the plane with Piras (Tom was coaching them), they jump with me every sunday and they are now very talented instructors and jumpers (They where even invited to 300-way world attempts).

From what they have told me Tom Piras had his cypres on, but he forgot to set the altitude of the DZ they where going to land (they left from different airports) so he asked one of the skydivers on the plane to please turn the cypres off because without the proper altitude his cypress would fire to high and cause an accident (He did not said "its only a 4-way", he said "I don't want to get a premature reserve deployment cause of a cypres fire and cause an accident with one of you").

From the video you can see that on his coaching jump somebody went low and unfortunately got a premature deployment (dunno if it was the main or the reserve, but I think I heard that it was the AAD that fired can't remember what brand), Tom hitted the canopy below him with his legs and hitted his head with my friends legs (my friend had his legs numb for a whole week, he even had to go to the doctor), Tom fainted and when the cameraman saw that he tried to reach him to pull his main or reserve but everytime he tried to reach the handle his wings filled with air and kept going up. From EYE witness Tom Piras was knocked out (arms and legs extended all the way up no sign of muscle tension, muscles completely relaxed) all the way to the floor."

Quote

(dunno if it was the main or the reserve, but I think I heard that it was the AAD that fired can't remember what brand)

Really? You're taking something that vaguely and conditionally stated as fact?

I personally have no knowledge or facts to add. But if I read the above account I would not say "Tom Piras was taken out by an AAD misfire." I would say that "Someone on the internet once made vague reference to the possibility that maybe perhaps but he doesn't really remember or know that a contributing factor to Tom Piras getting knocked out might've been an AAD misfire. Maybe but he doesn't really know for sure but he might've heard that at some point."

As 100% confirmed fact? No. It does sound like it, though. I wasn't able to find the video anywhere on the Net.

Piras' incident predates my time in the sport. If anyone has better data, I'm all ears.

PiLFy

This is interesting. I just followed Grimmie's link. I hadn't known that Tom Piras was taken out by an AAD misfire. I'd say that belongs in this thread:

/forum/Skydiving_C1/Safety_and_Training_F2/What_no_pin_check_P169228-3

Quote

"First of all I would like to ask everybody to STOP posting, talking, writing etc. speculations about Tom Piras accident because you are getting it VERY WRONG and are making others look guilty when it was an accident that could of happen to any of us in those days.

I know the people that were in the plane with Piras (Tom was coaching them), they jump with me every sunday and they are now very talented instructors and jumpers (They where even invited to 300-way world attempts).

From what they have told me Tom Piras had his cypres on, but he forgot to set the altitude of the DZ they where going to land (they left from different airports) so he asked one of the skydivers on the plane to please turn the cypres off because without the proper altitude his cypress would fire to high and cause an accident (He did not said "its only a 4-way", he said "I don't want to get a premature reserve deployment cause of a cypres fire and cause an accident with one of you").

From the video you can see that on his coaching jump somebody went low and unfortunately got a premature deployment (dunno if it was the main or the reserve, but I think I heard that it was the AAD that fired can't remember what brand), Tom hitted the canopy below him with his legs and hitted his head with my friends legs (my friend had his legs numb for a whole week, he even had to go to the doctor), Tom fainted and when the cameraman saw that he tried to reach him to pull his main or reserve but everytime he tried to reach the handle his wings filled with air and kept going up. From EYE witness Tom Piras was knocked out (arms and legs extended all the way up no sign of muscle tension, muscles completely relaxed) all the way to the floor."

The premature deployment was not an AAD misfire. It was the guy's main. His leg strap mounted pilot chute crawled out.

PiLFy

As 100% confirmed fact? No. It does sound like it, though. I wasn't able to find the video anywhere on the Net.

Piras' incident predates my time in the sport. If anyone has better data, I'm all ears.

As stated in my reply to your previous post, the premature deployment was not an AAD misfire. It was the guy's main. His leg strap mounted pilot chute crawled out.

As for the story about the AAD being turned off in the plane because of a calibration issue, take that with a grain of salt. Tom was very old school. He never jumped with a helmet or shoes and word on the DZ was that he never turned the thing on.

FWIW, I have never heard first-hand info on it either way.

A Cypres and wearing no helmet

Below is what is written in Sports Parachutist Feb 1993,

Tom Piras was killed as a result of a freefall collision in Panama on December 13th last year. He was coaching a group of intermediate skydivers in 4-way FS. The video of the jump showed that there was a funnel on exit at 12,500ft and one of the jumpers ended up low beneath Piras. His pilot chute at this point came out of its pouch and Tom Piras was flipped by the deploying canopy; his head contacted the Panamanian’s knee and he was knocked unconscious.
The cameraman gave chase but eventually had to abandon the attempt. Piras had been falling in a head-down attitude; he did recover
consciousness enough to turn over and start to pull his reserve handle but he was by now too low. Ironically he was wearing a Cypres AAD but had not switched it on at the start of the days jumping

strife

A Cypres and wearing no helmet

Below is what is written in Sports Parachutist Feb 1993,

Tom Piras was killed as a result of a freefall collision in Panama on December 13th last year. He was coaching a group of intermediate skydivers in 4-way FS. The video of the jump showed that there was a funnel on exit at 12,500ft and one of the jumpers ended up low beneath Piras. His pilot chute at this point came out of its pouch and Tom Piras was flipped by the deploying canopy; his head contacted the Panamanian’s knee and he was knocked unconscious.
The cameraman gave chase but eventually had to abandon the attempt. Piras had been falling in a head-down attitude; he did recover
consciousness enough to turn over and start to pull his reserve handle but he was by now too low. Ironically he was wearing a Cypres AAD but had not switched it on at the start of the days jumping

Yes, I found that article while looking for the video. In trying to find that video, & reports about the incident, the differences between then & now are stark. Without Internet forums to dissect incidents in order to learn from them, & spur growth, the early '90s seem a world away. It's frustrating that there were so few video flyers back then, & that Youtube & Vimeo didn't yet exist. I'm in no way advocating <200 jump Newbies jumping GoPros, but POV cams being omnipresent on DZs makes the odds of catching something on video much higher.

PiLFy

Quote

"So please, share. Recall, if you will, that was the original question, not "does Chuck know how to use the quote feature?" or "do people really understand compound interest?" I'll quote it for reference."

OK, fair enough.

1) As has already been said, they can misfire. I think the odds of this happening are remote, but it remains a possibility. It could also fire during an aircraft emergency (again).

2) I'm a firm believer in KISS. I only like to add complexity when necessary. It could cause a one in a million unforeseen conflict w/another component.

3) They're hard metal boxes firmly strapped right across one's spine. Poo Happens. If there's a canopy collapse while landing, or a hard free fall collision. That small metal box could snap your spine, transect your spinal cord, & leave you paralyzed.

I've already been in a situation where I couldn't re-orient my body prior to impacting the ground. It's not a good feeling. Had I landed on my back, I probably would've been left paralyzed. It was a student jump, w/an AAD.

4) A Cypres2 would run me about $1800, including scheduled maintenance. While easily do-able for me, it's still a fair piece of change.

5) When I look at the Save Lists of the two major players, I'm not sold. Vigil's list has a number of repeat incidents listed. They're double-counting some of their saves. I haven't noticed that on Airtec's list, but it's beside the point. What I have noticed is almost all the saves are of students. Student jumpers making student mistakes. Even a fair number of the experienced jumpers' saves are of the same cloth. For example, one guy was uncurrent from a winter, & sucked it all the way down to activation altitude without realizing the ground was getting kinda close . They also include multiple jumpers who did pull silver, but their units still fired. Those people did save themselves.

6) Surprised to say, but there is also the enjoyment of "Jumping Naked". I've got absolutely nothing against anyone who jumps w/an AAD. Comments about their not being real skydivers were asinine, & not made by me. When I rode motorcycles, I always wore a full-faced helmet, & full body protection. I would've been a nervous wreck not to. But, in the air I feel a purity of knowing I have to pull or die. I'm not a reckless person, but do enjoy this aspect of the sport. Perhaps swoopers feel a different version of this? Dunno.

We average a little over three million jumps per year in the US. I'm guessing Europe does the same amount, or even a bit more. Out of six million-ish jumps per year (not counting the rest of the world), the lists show maybe 3-5 legitimate LOC saves. Almost all of those are from higher risk jumps like tracking dives. Last year, I think only one person got taken out from behind by someone swooping into them in free fall (non-tracking dive). The report was unclear as to the circumstances. That's one jump out of six million (plus, Asia & down under) jumps. I think those odds are so remote that it's more likely for me to have one of the other problems I listed above.

When an incident like the one that prompted this thread occurs, it gets everyone's attention. That gentleman had more skill & experience than I'll probably ever have. Everyone who knew him has no idea how this could've happened to him. A health emergency? Bird strike? We'll probably never know. Clearly, it was something extraordinary.

How often does someone of his caliber go in, though? I can't remember a single instance that wasn't explainable by some factor like a mid-air collision.

A lot of injuries in this sport go unreported, but not the deaths. The odds produced by those save lists don't make a compelling case for me to strap an AAD onto my back. I limit the types of jumps I'll do, & keep aware of whom I'm jumping with. I think I'm better off without one. I was taught years ago that everyone has their moment, no matter who they are. That's very true, but I still can't see myself not pulling unless I'm unconscious or seriously incapacitated.

I do think the proof is overwhelming in support for AADs being mandatory for student jumpers, though.

P.S.: After having listed all of this out, if I am that one in six-ish million who gets knocked out & goes in, next year? I'm gonna come back, & kick the piss out of you, Krisanne .

at one time I went over the cypress and vigil sites to breakdown the stats. It was interesting - I don't have the breakdown here but it was sort of like - students, then cameramen, then un-current or lowtime jumpers. What it did demonstrate to me was that the chances of an experienced and current jumper needing one was not that high. Yeah, there's a possibility of an injury incapacitating one, but remote.

chuckakers

***As 100% confirmed fact? No. It does sound like it, though. I wasn't able to find the video anywhere on the Net.

Piras' incident predates my time in the sport. If anyone has better data, I'm all ears.

As stated in my reply to your previous post, the premature deployment was not an AAD misfire. It was the guy's main. His leg strap mounted pilot chute crawled out.

As for the story about the AAD being turned off in the plane because of a calibration issue, take that with a grain of salt. Tom was very old school. He never jumped with a helmet or shoes and word on the DZ was that he never turned the thing on.

FWIW, I have never heard first-hand info on it either way.

I never heard of the aad being turned off in the plane. I have heard he told Laidlaw he forgot to turn it on once they were off the ground. I have never heard that he wouldn't have normally turned it on.

3) They're hard metal boxes firmly strapped right across one's spine. Poo Happens. If there's a canopy collapse while landing, or a hard free fall collision. That small metal box could snap your spine, transect your spinal cord, & leave you paralyzed.



Now you're just making shit up. If you don't want to spend the money then say so. If your canopy collapses on landing the AAD could transect your spine? WTF.

PiLFy

3) They're hard metal boxes firmly strapped right across one's spine. Poo Happens. If there's a canopy collapse while landing, or a hard free fall collision. That small metal box could snap your spine, transect your spinal cord, & leave you paralyzed.

I've already been in a situation where I couldn't re-orient my body prior to impacting the ground. It's not a good feeling. Had I landed on my back, I probably would've been left paralyzed. It was a student jump, w/an AAD.

Result would be the same without an AAD actually. My guess is your back would be broken prior to having the reserve compressed to AAD size.

It's the same question asked time and again. Does one man have the right to force his opinions regarding personal safety on another?

1) seat belts in cars
2) helmets on motorcycles
3) vaccines
4) AADs

For every one of these topics there are arguments for and against. For every one of these topics people have strong opinions one way or another and believe their position is the right one. For every one of these topics there is a majority and minority opinion (and history proves the majority opinion is not always correct).

Personal safety and risk assessment is a complex and individual topic. People have different strengths and weaknesses and they are exposed to different dangers. Those who are most successful in avoiding injury and death are those who identify those dangers and weaknesses and address them accordingly.

People also have limited resources. They must choose where to allocate those resources. Purchasing an AAD will deplete resources that might be better spent elsewhere such as a bicycle helmet, new tires, or a safer car.

What bothers me most about the "mandate AADs" discussion is the fact that skydivers are generally people who take full responsibility for their own lives. Jumping out of an airplane is an act that says "I and I alone am responsible for getting myself safely to the ground." That's what makes this such an exceptional sport and why skydiving gives people a sense of freedom and control over their own lives. Let's not spoil it.

tristansdad

3) They're hard metal boxes firmly strapped right across one's spine. Poo Happens. If there's a canopy collapse while landing, or a hard free fall collision. That small metal box could snap your spine, transect your spinal cord, & leave you paralyzed.



Now you're just making shit up. If you don't want to spend the money then say so. If your canopy collapses on landing the AAD could transect your spine? WTF.

No, I'd learned of one such case of exactly that happening while I was still a student.

Lose the profanity.

piisfish

***3) They're hard metal boxes firmly strapped right across one's spine. Poo Happens. If there's a canopy collapse while landing, or a hard free fall collision. That small metal box could snap your spine, transect your spinal cord, & leave you paralyzed.

I've already been in a situation where I couldn't re-orient my body prior to impacting the ground. It's not a good feeling. Had I landed on my back, I probably would've been left paralyzed. It was a student jump, w/an AAD.

Result would be the same without an AAD actually. My guess is your back would be broken prior to having the reserve compressed to AAD size.

Years later, I learned that this could also happen. It would take more force to do it, though.

At this point I have an AAD and would feel uncomfortable jumping without one because:

1) For the type of jumps I do I think AAD is beneficial - belly jumps, hopefully moving on to bigger and bigger ways. The bigger the formation, the more I feel an AAD is beneficial. I would probably be semi-fine jumping solo without an AAD, except for the next point.
2) I don't 100% trust my own skills - like that I won't hit the airplane on exit someday and get knocked out, hit other jumper and get knocked out etc.
3) I don't trust other people I jump with - just like being a defensive car driver and constantly assuming other drivers will do stupid stuff has saved me from quite a few collisions I would have otherwise been involved in in the last 15 years of driving, wearing an AAD *may* someday help save me from dying when someone does stupid stuff, so why not have it.
4) I don't want a situation where someone takes me out on a jump, and I die an otherwise preventable death. I don't want that person to feel guilty for the rest of their life for MY death. I don't want my loved ones to ask "what if I only convinced her to wear an AAD". So yes, I wear it for the comfort of others as well, to some extent. If stuff's bound to happen, it will happen, but at least my loved ones will have one "what if" less to ask themselves.

Having said that, I will re-evaluate my use of AAD should I pursue different disciplines in the future.

I'm also a very anti-nanny state person. When it comes to personal safety, I believe in education and choice, not forcefully making people safe. I don't believe AADs should be mandatory, just like I don't believe helmets or seatbelts should be mandatory. As long as the only person I am endangering is myself, and I'm not endangering other people, I believe I should have the right to choose to put myself at risk if I want to. The problem with nanny-states is they tend to over-regulate because nobody knows where to draw a line of what is too much regulation. On the other hand, the line of "putting others at risk - illegal, putting yourself at risk - as you please" seems very clearly defined.

Now I can also understand why we have mandatory helmets & seatbelts - it would be difficult to enforce higher insurance rates on people who choose not to wear them, effectively raising insurance rates for all of us. Also public costs for road collisions are significant (medical service for under-insured, police service, road service, lawyers, the cost of having a busy freeway closed because of a fatality etc). So if this enforcement effectively cuts some costs in a statistically documented way and lowers my tax burden, I think it's fine.

I don't think the lack of an AAD is a significant burden on tax payers though (20 skydiving fatalities per year vs 30,000 car crash fatalities per year in the US), so I don't see a reason why it should be mandatory. Those extra deaths (otherwise preventable) may on the other hand correspond to income loss for the affected DZ though (probably more so in tandem factory DZs, since tandem jumps are most likely to be affected by negative press - my very own speculation, unsupported by data). So if a particular DZO chooses to enforce AAD usage - fine by me, I can choose to jump elsewhere. A global USPA enforcement? Does not make much sense, imho.

For those who argue that those preventable fatalities give a "bad name" to the sport - fair enough, I take that argument, but I don't think it's enough to strictly regulate what is in fact a high risk sport. Over-regulation tends to stall progress & innovation, and I think skydiving benefits far more from progress & pushing the limits than it benefits from regulation. If the incentive behind mandatory AADs is to make the sport look safer so more tandem jumpers think it's an amusement park ride - I fully disagree that this is the right direction either.

I have seen them work, for both student and pro. Also lost a friend due to unconsciousness in mid air (Thousands of jumps, and all his life in the sport) AAD would have saved him.

I am pro mandatory for all.