fcajump

Sorry Jerry... not a straight forward number here either, but my $.02... Time - doesn't work for me, but is a major concern: - Many of us have seen closet queens or well cared for rigs that are in very serviceable condition after almost any age (here I'll limit myself to man-made materials, not silk, cotton, or pongee... what is pongee anyway???) A friend of mine regularly/only jumps a pair of Sweethogs, that look better than many at the local DZ. BUT, he was a rigger when they were new, and he KNOWS the systems and their limitations... One was modified by Cliff to have a Cypres in it (try retrofitting one now with the old manuals with their "if you have the 3" plastic renforcing on slot 2, then do...") He has ROL, but there are rigs out there with belly band throw-out... At _some_ point, these rigs need to be handled/packed/jumped by those who have the experience and understanding of the rig's characteristics and limitations. Kind of like Antique plates (in some states) place limitations on how the vehicle could be used, maybe we need an antique designation (over 20 years maybe) where they can be used under additional stipulations. I would hate to say you can't drive your Model T in the parade and car show, but it should not be permitted on the Interstates. Number of jumps - maybe better option, but still limiting: - here I would compare a canopy that is used for mostly hop-n-pops in the mid-Atlantic (mine), and a "lightly used" canopy I was sent from a jumper at a large AZ dropzone. The Spectre 210 might have only had the 450 jumps claimed, but if so it was packed in the sand after being drug back from landing... (I have traveled to AZ, but never had the chance to jump there, but I understand the grit is very hard on fabric... locals are invited to correct me). I could see jump count limits on the line set, PC, soft links, maybe even the harness. But I think we would then have individuals pushing to make those numbers despite condition. So, free thinking here... Stress components: harness (not container), soft links, lines, bridle, kill line, PC to be given jump count limits by the Mfg dependent upon material. (and how are you going to track this??) Under 20 years: routine inspection by a rigger who can ground based on condition Over 20 years: routine inspection by a rigger who is personally knowledgeable with the rig/components with an owner/jumper who is verified to know the rig and its unique issues/limitations. But when these ideas are boiled down... it looks a lot like what we have in place currently... Now, anyone know where I can get (pulling this from memory) 1000# Dacron in different sheath colors so I can reline my Delta II with OSI? JW

While I am not an aerodynamics engineer, I am a master rigger and pilot. The above was based on the general aviation training given here for the above, and is still in the current manuals. However, I am always open to new information and like to expand my knowledge. As you have a (seemingly) very different understanding of the topic, could you please provide published references to where I could read up on your views? JW Ps - moderators: this discussion of aerodynamics (or shitshow as someone desired it) has strayed much further from the central topic than I had ever intended to be party. Feel free to move the side discussion to some more appropriate location (gear, bonfire, dumpster fire, etc...) I am willing to continue the discussion elsewhere, but here is not the right venue.

I have a Racer, and it is very comfortable. I choose to either not use the RSL or use it single sided (that is an option). I bought it as a rigger wanting to understand the system better. There is a second issue with the Racer double sided RSL... if the rigger installs it prior to closing the container (against the manual), it can be trapped under the top reserve flap. Now, most rigs can be packed in such a way as to have fatal flaws, but there is something to be said about dealing with rigs that are less common and different from the mainstream. I would make a few recommendations to anyone with a Racer: * get a rigger that _knows_ Racers * learn about how your system is different * think twice about using the double sided RSL (and if you're still using it... thing about it some more). * do NOT loan your rig to anyone who isn't a Racer owner. * do NOT tighten your reserve closing loop, take it back to the rigger who packed it if it gets a little loose. (same with Reflex) * do NOT jump with the reserve PC loose/showing fabric (same with Reflex/Jav/etc) * ask your rigger is use a scale each time the reserve is popped and check what the pull force is (good practice on any rig, but especially on Racer and Reflex). Mine is up for sale occasionally (230-260M / 235R) but more because I don't need a third rig at this point. JW

Agree, very different solutions to a problem that does not occur often... that of a riser break on the RSL side (resulting in a reserve deployment without the other side released). This was mostly eliminated by strengthening the mini-risers*. And if my early morning brain is thinking correctly, even if such a break happens now, this scenario is now usually mitigated by a Collin's Lanyard. While I was not usually in agreement with John's solutions, I am GLAD this industry has people that constantly question the status-quo and standard solutions, and are looking for better ways to do things. If one looks at the various riser release systems prior to the three ring, it is clear that many people were not satisfied and trying to find a better way (as a single example). *completely different line - I've heard of one individual (works for a mfg) who doesn't put the reinforcement in his own risers, choosing instead to have it be a "weak link" in case of an overspeed deployment. JW

Normally I agree with you Wendy, but here I have a problem... (IIRC - corrections welcome, its been a while): In the case of the Racer, properly configured with a the double sided RSL - in the case of a double deployment where the reserve deploys first a cutaway without releasing the RSL can/has caused fatalities as the dual RSL connected to main risers will choke the reserve. When asked about this scenario, the response was to point out that the manual instructs that the RSL connections are to be released after confirming that the canopy has opened correctly for every jump. (I'd quote, but I'm not able to pull the manual from their site right now) No flailing involved, not talking about improper rigging (which can also be an issue with the Racer dual-RSL), just a two-out in the "wrong order" where the main is released before the RSL. JW

VERY bad idea to wear a rig while wing walking.(inadvertent deployment while on the wing/javelin/ strapped to the upper stantion and/or at the N-strut would be devastating for all involved. (Aside - wing riders shouldn't either, for many of the same reasons, but they do need capable station straps/belts) I am a master rigger/jumper, but I think talking to current experienced wing walkers and (even better) pilots that are also wing walkers would be a better subject matter expert. There are several shows that have highly experienced walkers to whom they might want to reach out. FWIW - over the last 30 years of knowing and working directly with wing-walkers at a local show, I have known and/or learned of several fatalities. If you look at the raw statistics, as a profession/recreation, it does not have a great record compared to jumping... BUT, NOT due to falls*. The incidents have been either mechanical in nature, or pilot issues (error or medical). *that I know of the only two falls, one who was "flying" from the belly of a plane whose harness came unclipped (not a wing-walker), and another who was doing a plane to helicopter transfer and got impatient and reached too far. (I could argue this later stunt would be a time for a PEP). JW PS - Please forward me any public information about this incident and investigation as I know walkers that would be very concerned about the possible repercussions of this case.

Looking for recommendations (positive/negative) for full face helmets that fit larger skull sizes

Deployment altitudes, both BSR and in practice... When I got my C, if you weren't doing CReW or a cross country, it was considered concerning for experienced jumpers to open higher than 2,500.... what's wrong with you if you do... Now C/D licensed are required to be above 2,500. But even more its common for the openings to be up to 5,000'+ Emphasis is on giving yourself time to deal with canopy issues, especially for the faster/smaller canopies. (it does lead to the backward condition of potentially have large slow canopies opening lower than small/fast. this then leads to pre-jump planning to ensure no conflicts.) Finally, depending on where you did and do jump, the larger turbine aircraft are more common, so higher exits are more common. JW

While I've packed a couple reserves that had Kevlar lines, I don't know the ins/outs of the issue well... What I was told at the time is that it was a two-stage issue: - Kevlar lines would abrade the metal components (brass slider grommets / steering guide rings) until there was a sharp area where it metal component has worn - that sharp area would then cut the Kevlar fibers. Justification for use on the reserves was that they were strong/low-bulk and acceptable for low-use items where the abrasion issue would take much longer to present itself. JW

That was around the same time I ordered my first rig (all new): custom RWS Vector II (w/ both round line stow option and freebag) Cypres (at a time when "they'll never know you have one" was the ad slogan) custom PD-260 (9cell F111) Fury Reserve ( final decision on round vs square was made shortly before placing my order - after a reserve ride on student gear... the square got me to a ball field instead of the trees where a round would have put me). Throw in a custom Tonysuit, alt, helmet, Dytter, goggles, rigging charges, etc... and it ran me right at $5k. (not including the interest on the credit card for hemmmm... a "few" years to get it paid off...) Still have all the parts, maybe i'll put it back in the air one of these days. JW

I am looking to build a new under canopy flag storage pouch that is sewn in on a Spectre, but looking to see what others might have done with this so as to not repeat other's mistakes. I have previously worked with a canopy that had a flag storage system built between the C-D line attach points on a canopy that had extended line attach points ~6" below the bottom skin (design name escapes me at the moment). This meant there was a stable place to build the bag. Unfortunately the canopy I want to use does not have this line attach type. I have also worked with one that was connected via links to the more common (current) line attach points on a Spectre. (This system was found to be susceptible to a flip through between the links, a condition that could capture other lines during packing, and the design was abandoned). Aside - for small flag (3x5 / 4x6), I have a ankle to riser setup I've used for 30 years and like... for BIG stuff a weighted drop system is necessary, but for mid-sized I prefer them mounted between slider and canopy as its MUCH easier to keep it off the ground, and there is no weight to hit either yourself, your crew, or the wayward kid that runs out in front of you when they get by your new crewman. Warning for newbies who might read this... messing with ANYTHING in your canopy requires a rigger, a strong design/plan, and an even stronger emergency response when your design has an unanticipated flaw. The flip-through issue was discovered when a brake line was captured, resulting in a backward spinning canopy at 2,000' despite a dozen prior successful jumps. Has anyone here used (or better... built) such a system that would like to share their notes? JW

BTW - to the inspecting rigger... <HINT> You can only actually find broken inner bands and dropped stitching by taking the safety stow out of the freebag and... um... INSPECTING it... </HINT> Just sayin... JW

Any internal breakage or if the stitching is coming undone. JW

When I played with speed, I would finish by spending 2-3k pulling horizontal into a high speed track 90degrees from jump run (we didn't have wings/trackers/angles at the time to conflict with).. It was really cool to see how much lift I could get with just a normal jump suit (~90mph vertical... and I'm a brick) and how much distance I could make. With the mix of jumpers we have in a typical otter these days, I wouldn't do it without a lot of coordination, but it was fun. JW

I agree I would not want that coming down on top of me, but assuming they are very fast straight down, doesn't that put them opening directly under where the belly fliers will drift?