1.333 Wingloading with 160 jumps....

It amazes me how everyone is in a hurry to downsize. Here are a few things to think of.

Just because you can stand up your current canopy doesn't mean you are ready to downsize.

Just because you can land it in no wind out in the nice grassy LZ doesn't mean you can put it down safely on a city street, backyard or other "outs" you may need to use after a bad spot.

The "should I downsize my canopy horse" gets beaten yet again...

Everyone makes mistakes under canopy.

Everyone.

The more jumps you have, the better you will be at identifying the kinds of funky situations that bring out mistakes before they unfold and you find yourself between a rock and a hard place. The more current you are, the more in touch you will be with your canopy, and the better off you will be when you first encounter one of these situations and have to do damage control.

Now imagine a matrix of all the possible mistakes you could make under canopy, listed from the most egregious to the most benign vs. wing-loading from the lowest to the highest showing the consequence of that mistake. It might look something like this...

0.6 0.8 1.0 1.2 1.4 1.6 1.8 2.0 2.2 2.4  

...


obstacle induced      D/I D/I I/X I/X I/X  X   X   X   X   X

low turn


Inacccuracy during     D   D  D/I D/I D/I I/X I/X I/X I/X I/X

off-DZ landing


mis-timed flare        D   D   D  D/I D/I D/I D/I I/X I/X I/X

(straight-in)


...


Legend:

D - You get your jumpsuit dirty

I - Serious Injury

X - Death

You need to ask yourself how sure you are that you aren't going to make mistakes that, at the wing loading you've selected, have I's and X's as a consequence.

Simply put, 164 is not a lot of jumps, and a couple jumps a week is not very current if you are thinking about moving beyond a 1.2 wing loading.

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ill take 20$ on markovwgti.....wait what are we betting here??

It called Bounce Bingo... we bet on who is going to bounce.

So far the odds makers don't seem to have a sense that you will live long and prosper.

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i was doing some very small 90 degree front riser turns but they were pretty high up

How high up? 500 ft? 4000 ft?

Wingload requires 6 significant digits.

500 feet

I'm pretty new to the sport, but to me, 500 feet isn't "high up"

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I'm pretty new to the sport, but to me, 500 feet isn't "high up"

Hell, some high performance pilots START their turns to final at 500 feet.

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Some junior jumpers are fine under it with their training/aptitude/experience. Others are future members of the "Heavy Metal" Club.

Hmmm...food for thought I guess. That would possibly put a few dropzones out of the student buisness since there are at least a few that I know of that use only Sabre 2's for AFF.

1.333 Wingloading with 160 jumps....
What do you guys think about that?


Its not all about the wing loading and jump numbers. If you are asking people on the internet about what they think...well then my opinion is you aren't ready.

1. Have you taken any canopy control courses?
2. Have you landed out, downwind, with obstacles?
3. Have you done the canopy downsize checklist?

It's so much more than jump numbers and wingloading. Some people aren't ready for 1.3337856 wingloading with 1000 jumps. Just as some people are reasonably safe at a 1.3 wingloading under a semi-elliptical canopy at 160 jumps. My bet though is that those people aren't asking for advice here and are working with instructors and canopy pilots at their respective DZ's.

Just food for thought. I'm not the poster child for canopy progression so take it for what its worth.

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I'm pretty new to the sport, but to me, 500 feet isn't "high up"

Hell, some high performance pilots START their turns to final at 500 feet.

Im doing 90 DEGREE Front riser turn at 500 feet...im not doin a 540 front riser turn at that height...jesus....90 degrees

ok my post numbers are almost higher then my jump numbers....so im gona stop posting till i get back from perris...;)

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What do you guys think about that?

Do you really care?

Any sort of research would tell you what the majority of DZ.commers think about it.

It would also tell you what DZ.commers think about starting to shoot video at under 200 jumps.

It would also tell you what DZ.commers think about starting to swoop early on.

You clearly did no research in either of those areas, so why start now?


Let's face it, just by taking up skydiving, you're straying outside of what most would consider 'normal' or 'safe'. Granted, the average Joe citizen might be a little too conservative for your tastes, so you go to the DZ anyway.

Once you get to the DZ, whi would you continue to stray outside of what the general (DZ) population would consider 'normal' or 'safe'. Clearly these people are far from conservative, they're skydivers, yet you continue to go against the norm, and push the limits of safety.

Can you see how this might be looked at as stupid? You're involved in a high risk activity that can easliy put you in the hospital or the grave, but even in that setting, you seemed determined to take the 'fast track' to where ever it is you're in such a hurry to get to.

Maybe wise up, take a note from those who have survived a few years in this game, and seen your kind come and go (sometimes the 'go' is in an ambulance) and try to 'toe the line' a bit more.

You're already a 'rebel' and 'extreme' for just being a skydiver. Once you're at the DZ, how about dropping the ego, and just being a regular guy?

The DZ is tough place to stand out, and trying to be a bad-ass in that crowd is a dangerous business. There's a reason that bad-ass skydivers have years in the sport, and 1000's of jumps. It's because that's the only way to get there. There are no substitutions or exceptions.

Given that, it's clear that you will have to put in a shit-ton of jumps, and that it will take years to accomplish, so today, right now, slow down, and make sure you get yourself to that point.

dont you worry, there are people with significanctly lower jumpnumbers, but significantly higher postnumbers.. some of those, dont even jump no more..

better be concerned that you dont spin yourself into the ground.

i bought my canopy with 60 jumps and put a WL of about 1.2 on it. my rigger and chief-instructor in person said, i was gonna be alright. just dont do stupid shit with it.. it can kill you!

There is an old saying: "FORGIVENESS IS EASIER THAN PERMISSION"

I can always find someone who will co-sign my BS if I ask enough people. I have always been conservative in my progression, I have over 1000 jumps on the first canopy I purchased. WL has gone up with my waistline, NOT the other way around. On jump #898 I got into a bad place and joined the "heavy metal club" because I made an error in judgment. I have watched too many people skip, slam, bounce, die because they wanted to be the 'hot-shot' swooper NOW!!! They were unwilling to work towards that end with patience and diligence.

Be careful, markovwgti, who you listen to. The ones we should listen to are the guys with 1000's of jumps, not the 200 jump 'wonders' who tell the guy with D-909 on his jumpsuit how to exit the Otter!!

I really like the chart!!

I did the "obstacle induced low turn" at the 1.2 to 1.4 WL and joined the "heavy metal club". While tumbling across the field, one thought crossed my mind: "I wonder how long this is going to last".

It will last the rest of my life!!

I think that a 1.333 wingloading is great. Mine is 1.5 at 92 jumps. I love it! Although I haven't forgot that skydiving is a EXTREME SPORT! I would be more concerned jumping with the conservatives on here with thousands of jumps that go by a chart than I would with someone that is confident in there skills themselves. Don't forget what you have inside and go have fun. PEACE! Just don't be dumb. It is simple.

Also want to add that betting on people bouncing is the most sick SHIT I have ever heard. KARMA!!

I'm hoping that this post is full of sarcasm....

the one about bounce-bingo? i think thats pretty sick myself.. but yea, to each their own..

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the one about bounce-bingo? i think thats pretty sick myself.. but yea, to each their own..

no, the post above that one....

Also want to add that betting on people bouncing is the most sick SHIT I have ever heard.

yet...

the thought of jumping a 1.5 loaded canopy in like, 30-40 jumps scares the crap out of me. I'm enjoying my .8 loading right now...lol

yeah guys i havent physically or emotionally hurt you or talked bad about you in anyway and your taking bets on me to see if im going to bouce or not...thats really cool...reall immature and childish

My buddies bounce thread: /cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=833952#833952

You've got the same loading as he did on his Sabre 2. He broke his tibia, fibula and femur. He was super current and doing a canopy control course when he broke himself. Hope you're luckier than he was.