DZOs-Would you move your DZ to New Mexico if it passed a law banning injury/death lawsuits caused by skydiving?

A law I have drafted for that purpose is being sponsored in this year's state legislative session. You can find the law here:https://www.nmlegis.gov/Sessions/17%20Regular/bills/house/HB0247.pdf

It is going to be heard in committee this week and I would like any information or insight from DZOs on whether they would consider starting or moving operations to a state where they enjoy immunity from injury and death lawsuits in most circumstances.

Why is this an incident? I hope your proposal writing abilities are better than your decisions on where to post things.

Any chance of adding the equipment manufacturers and USPA to the law? The DZ's can't operate for long if all the manufacturers and USPA are sued out of existence. No matter what, this is a step in the right direction. Ski operators in Colorado and equestrian operations in Florida already have such protections.

invalid poll - missing the required Boobies option

It's in "incidents" because the law relates exclusively to them. Unless I missed the "government relations" forum, it's over the wall for you.

Bill,

I invited Randy Ottinger and Jay Stokes to participate in this project, but have not heard anything from them. I certainly would like to see the day that manufacturers gain the same protection. After discussing that option with the bill sponsor, we decided including manufacturers would be ineffective because plaintiffs could file suit in the state where the manufacturer is based (where NM state law doesn't apply), and because it would lead to too much legislative resistance. As is, the democrats were just restored to majority in our state, so the bill might not make it this year. This will be an ongoing project if it doesn't make it all the way through the legislature this year and I would very much like your input from the manufacturer perspective.

meatbomb1984

It's in "incidents" because the law relates exclusively to them. Unless I missed the "government relations" forum, it's over the wall for you.

Almost Bonfire quality, probably wouldn't get moved out of General Skydiving but for sure doesn't belong in Incidents.

"A forum to report, discuss and learn from actual incidents, fatal and non-fatal. Let's learn from our own mistakes and honor those people who've passed on by not making the same mistakes."

New Mexico has a population of around 2 million. It's largest city, Albuquerque, has an elevation of over 5000 ft. Down south, near El Paso the elevation is still well over 3000 ft. There is a good reason why there are few DZs in New Mexico. The legal system is not one of them.

billbooth

Any chance of adding the equipment manufacturers and USPA to the law? The DZ's can't operate for long if all the manufacturers and USPA are sued out of existence. No matter what, this is a step in the right direction. Ski operators in Colorado and equestrian operations in Florida already have such protections.

Bill - here's the contact info for the legislator that introduced the bill.

https://www.nmlegis.gov/members/Legislator?SponCode=HARMG

Looking at the bill, it appears that plaintiffs could still get a judgment if the DZ was found to be negligent, so I'm not sure what's so different about this vs current law.

Also, if passed the bill would require DZ's to carry a minimum $100,000 insurance policy that would cover incidents if the DZ fails to operate under a list of best practices. Unless something has changed since I was in the business, no such insurance is available at any price so as well meaning as this bill is, it may be a moot point.

meatbomb1984

A law I have drafted for that purpose is being sponsored in this year's state legislative session. You can find the law here:https://www.nmlegis.gov/Sessions/17%20Regular/bills/house/HB0247.pdf

It is going to be heard in committee this week and I would like any information or insight from DZOs on whether they would consider starting or moving operations to a state where they enjoy immunity from injury and death lawsuits in most circumstances.

If I'm reading this correctly, the bill will require DZ's to have liability insurance that covers skydiving incidents under certain conditions. I haven't been a DZO in quite a few years, but in my experience no such insurance is available at any price.

Could you address that for me?

SECTION 4.
[NEW MATERIAL] INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS.--A
drop zone operator shall file with the corporations bureau of
the office of the secretary of state a certificate of insurance
coverage in the amount of at least one hundred thousand dollars
($100,000) that covers liability of the drop zone operator for
any loss, injury or death resulting from a violation of Section
6 of the Skydiving Safety Act. A drop zone operator that fails
to maintain the insurance requirements of this section shall
not receive any of the protections afforded by the Skydiving
Safety Act.

I such a law could be passed It might make the environment much more friendly to skydiving.

This is how I understand it. The sking industry got laws passed in CO. You can't sue a mountain. If you are not paying to be on some ones land you can't sue them for injuring your self while you are on it. So you buy lift tickets or what ever you call them for the chair things. but you don't pay to ski. Notice how many ski resorts thrive in CO. If they had the same liability burben as us they would never survive.

Lee

RiggerLee

I such a law could be passed It might make the environment much more friendly to skydiving.

This is how I understand it. The sking industry got laws passed in CO. You can't sue a mountain. If you are not paying to be on some ones land you can't sue them for injuring your self while you are on it. So you buy lift tickets or what ever you call them for the chair things. but you don't pay to ski. Notice how many ski resorts thrive in CO. If they had the same liability burben as us they would never survive.

Lee

I understand that. My point was/is the law would require drop zones to carry insurance that isn't available. How can a business be expected to follow a law that requires something that is impossible?

billvon

>I understand that. My point was/is the law would require drop zones to carry
>insurance that isn't available.

You can get insurance for anything. We've gotten insurance that let us drop 80 people into downtown San Francisco, and let us drop 20 bikini-clad women onto the strip in Las Vegas. If you pay enough someone will write you a policy.

The question is - how much will it cost?

That would be event specific demo insurance written with verification of the experience and credentials of the jumpers involved. I have never heard of a company willing to write a policy for continual skydiving activities by unnamed persons of varying experience levels including unlicensed novices.

I'm not clear on what that insurance would involve. is that protection for the DZ from injuries sustained by the participants? is that liability against damage done to others by them? Land on some one elses airplane? If that then it's not that different from what the USPA offers. May be the would be amiable to writing a similar policy. And any way it's a $100,000 policy. That's not very large. Is that a miss print? I wasn't aware they wrote policies less then a million.

Lee

RiggerLee

I'm not clear on what that insurance would involve. is that protection for the DZ from injuries sustained by the participants? is that liability against damage done to others by them? Land on some one elses airplane? If that then it's not that different from what the USPA offers. May be the would be amiable to writing a similar policy. And any way it's a $100,000 policy. That's not very large. Is that a miss print? I wasn't aware they wrote policies less then a million.

Lee

The way the clause is worded and some deeper research into the bill makes it sound like the coverage would be in place as liability protection if there is a claim for property damage, personal injury, or death from skydiving activities AND the drop zone was open to legal action for failure to follow BSR's, FAR's and other regulations.

The law would exempt DZ's from liability if the operation was following all the regulations, so the insurance is protection if the operation gets opened up to liability for failure to uphold its end of the law.

Still, I have never heard of a company writing skydiving-specific liability insurance for drop zones, so that's the wrench in the wheel.

Hi Chuck,

Quote

a company writing skydiving-specific liability insurance for drop zones

I have not kept up with the laws here in Oregon, but at one time, anyone could post a bond to the minimum value of the req'd insurance for their car & then drive without actually being insured. A classmate in high school had to do this due to so many accidents & drunk driving tickets.

It might be an option depending upon the various state laws.

Jerry Baumchen

How many DZ's do you reckon NM could support?

JerryBaumchen

Hi Chuck,

Quote

a company writing skydiving-specific liability insurance for drop zones

I have not kept up with the laws here in Oregon, but at one time, anyone could post a bond to the minimum value of the req'd insurance for their car & then drive without actually being insured. A classmate in high school had to do this due to so many accidents & drunk driving tickets.

It might be an option depending upon the various state laws.

Jerry Baumchen

Interesting idea, Jerry. I have contacted the sponsor of the bill and she is looking into all this. I will pass that along.

chuckakers

***>I understand that. My point was/is the law would require drop zones to carry
>insurance that isn't available.

You can get insurance for anything. We've gotten insurance that let us drop 80 people into downtown San Francisco, and let us drop 20 bikini-clad women onto the strip in Las Vegas. If you pay enough someone will write you a policy.

The question is - how much will it cost?

That would be event specific demo insurance written with verification of the experience and credentials of the jumpers involved. I have never heard of a company willing to write a policy for continual skydiving activities by unnamed persons of varying experience levels including unlicensed novices.

Didn't we have this discussion a while back?

There's a huge difference between liability insurance for a demo jump (where the insurance company will pay for damages done by jumpers hitting stuff) and liability insurance for a DZ (where the insurance company will pay for damages to a student who gets hurt or killed during a jump).

The first is readily available, as long as the participating jumpers meet certain qualifications (PRO rating, FAA waiver, ect).

The second is not.

There are types of liability available to DZs. Covering damages in case the airplane crashes and does damage, "trip and fall" for spectators on the DZ, that sort of basic stuff.

But there is no company anywhere that will offer to cover the risk to students jumping. Risk pool is too small, potential payout is too large, all sorts of "actuarial" reasons.

IIRC, there was someone who did kayak/whitewater rafting training who swore up and down that his agent could get liability coverage for a DZ. When asked for a quote, he disappeared.

Sure, if they passed a law also allowing weed.

I am curious now, is there a DZ near Albuquerque at all? I'll bet views would be amazing with the mountain range to the north and desert to the south. I loved visiting there! Great state. It was my first time big mountain skiing at Taos.

There's Skydive New Mexico, which is about an hour and 45 minutes South of there. From what I hear, there aren't a lot of options in New Mexico. I just drove through there and it was windy as hell for the entire time I was in the state, might have something to do with it...

meatbomb1984

...the democrats were just restored to majority in our state...

Democrats have been in the majority in the state since 2009.

You drafted legislation that would require dropzones to carry insurance that doesn't exist as a current product and would be a prohibitive expense?

Please stop doing the sport any favors.